USMC Too many aircraft in the Marine Corps?

[hlg6016]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_raid_on_Camp_Bastion
Still a relevant set of skills to have. I'd rather fight with a bullet launcher instead of a socket set.

 

[Hotdogs]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_raid_on_Camp_Bastion
Still a relevant set of skills to have. I'd rather fight with a bullet launcher instead of a socket set.

Ironic because the hero that day was a crew chief behind a GAU-17 in a Yankee..

...and they’re all things that are already done during predeployment work ups.

 

[hlg6016]

Ironic because the hero that day was a crew chief behind a GAU-17 in a Yankee..

...and they’re all things that are already done during predeployment work ups.

Thank you, good to know that gets covered prior to deployment.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

You mean everyone should have to go to the rifle range every year? Oh wait, that’s already a thing.

Everyone should read up on how that attack was repelled by knowledge of Marine Corps history, and land nav. There is no greater weapon than a Marine and his lensatic compass.

 

[phrogdriver]

Seems like the Corps has pendulumed right past common sense again. Do Marines who run foot and vehicle patrols need to be able to navigate without GPS and/or a BFT unit? Yes.

Do we need to have our mechs doing it when we’re at 50% or below? Shouldn’t be a top priority.

 

[pourts]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_raid_on_Camp_Bastion
Still a relevant set of skills to have. I'd rather fight with a bullet launcher instead of a socket set.

I don't get your post. Are you trying to remind us that when we forward deploy we are at risk? I had friends there so I know what happened, but thanks for the reminder. Are you trying to say non-grunts need to be proficient with their T/O weapon? Cool, they already go to the range once a year and begin their career with MCT.

A huge number of Marines don't stay in after their initial 4 year enlistment. I think the number is about 70%. Could be wrong, but lets assume that is the number. Just a quick back of the envelope calculation: 70% of your Marines are within 3 ish years of MCT. 33% of your pilots do 1 year FAC tours with the grunts and brush up on all this shit then go back to the squadrons. The necessary knowledge exists within the Air Wing, and it gets refreshed before deployment. If you want to emphasize this, do it at Cpl's course, Sgt's course etc and make the hard choice of what to cut out. We already have to lose our people to those courses for weeks. If this crap is so important, teach it there.

@Brett: I will for a moment speak for @Treetop Flyer and @Hotdogs we aren't arguing to give up the "every Marine a rifleman" thing. Keep TBS at 6 months, keep MCT for admin clerks, keep everything how its always been... just don't increase the stupidity factor and make it worse.

 

[Brett327]

every Marine a rifleman

I’m in agreement with you. I’m just making light of slogan and how that mindset can be used to justify stuff like this.

 

[hlg6016]

FWIW guys, It was proposed in my time (Late 80's) that Air Wing troops get run through a MCT type course mainly to make us familiar with weapons other than annual rifle range stuff. Gulf 1 put a squash on that before it could be implemented. The view we the troops had was that we could at least do a little more than just run and hide if shit hit the fan if we where familiar with the toys. This is not the first time this idea has been proposed, this current set up seems to be a lot more over the top.
And at the time we troopies where looking at it as a break from working months of day on stay on just to do something different.
As I stated earlier I'm glad the issue gets addressed prior to deployment.

 

[Swanee]

I will for a moment speak for @Treetop Flyer and @Hotdogs we aren't arguing to give up the "every Marine a rifleman" thing. Keep TBS at 6 months, keep MCT for admin clerks, keep everything how its always been... just don't increase the stupidity factor and make it worse

Here here brother.

We've proven that we're "good enough" to take up arms when needed. If we have to go provisional we'll be able to manage- but we shouldn't train for a tertiary COA at the expense of our primary warfighting functions and duties. At the end of the day the Marine Corps needs up to be doing our primary job first- otherwise we're fucked anyway.

 

[wlawr005]

Here here brother.

We've proven that we're "good enough" to take up arms when needed. If we have to go provisional we'll be able to manage- but we shouldn't train for a tertiary COA at the expense of our primary warfighting functions and duties. At the end of the day the Marine Corps needs up to be doing our primary job first- otherwise we're fucked anyway.

I love the Marine Corps...and I truly admire most of it's leadership...from E-1 and up.

That being said...how the fuck can one single service justify a "rifleman" approach to buying F-35s?

The Marines need to pick a fight and stop trying to be relevant in ALL the fights. It even seems that identity is lost on the home team as well.

I really think the perfect Corps would be 500 dudes who's first priority was to eject in such a fashion that the planes are actually bombs and the pilots are actually infiltrating. Then, by some miracle of Americanism, that dude just wins the war.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I really think the perfect Corps would be 500 dudes who's first priority was to eject in such a fashion that the planes are actually bombs and the pilots are actually infiltrating. Then, by some miracle of Americanism, that dude just wins the war.

Wat

 

[wlawr005]

Just a little tongue-in-cheek my friend...

Although I still think the F-35B is a HUGE waste of technology and resources. Ultimately to the detriment of DON mission capability.

 

[Flash]

....Although I still think the F-35B is a HUGE waste of technology and resources. Ultimately to the detriment of DON mission capability.

To survive in the current and future threat environment that we will face against 'near-peers' an aircraft like the F-35 is desperately needed, even by the Marines.

 

[wlawr005]

Sure...because historically we've seen the Marines possessing a first line A/A offensive capability. Apparently by procuring the -35B they've proven their inherent place in a 5th Gen war. Good to see those leaps and bounds in technological capabilities have ensured our country's technological superiority

 

[Flash]

Sure...because historically we've seen the Marines possessing a first line A/A offensive capability. Apparently by procuring the -35B they've proven their inherent place in a 5th Gen war. Good to see those leaps and bounds in technological capabilities have ensured our country's technological superiority

I would be far more worried about ground-based threats, and if Marine air can't help neutralize or mitigate the ones that are operational today or in the future it calls into question the Corps' relevance in a scenario against a 'near-peer' threat.