Common sense is that there should be a combination of general checks along with profiling that puts certain demographics through more intensive screening.
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TSA or T&A ???
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
A failure of intelligence, sure. But that doesn't mean that we should throw our hands up and use such an asinine comment as an excuse to have a weak last line of defense.
I seriously doubt as many people would complain if the implementation of the policy was a little less offensive. A lot of people will eat a shit sandwich if it is presented well enough.
gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
Just a failure if intelligence, or is it an overall failure of the system in general? Sure, if you try hard enough, you can boil a lot of things down poor intelligence, even without one of my characteristic asinine comments. But if you blame it all on poor intel, then you're likely overlooking the almost certain fact that someone, somewhere further up the food chain from TSA punted it into the stands. Someone made the conscious decision to ignore something that wasn't right. Whether it was the ticketing agent who ignored that guy who paid cash for a one way ticket, the cop who saw the car burn through the red light and let the go, or the hotel manager who had a dozen guys check in to two rooms, cash paid in advance, and didn't question it, is irrelevant. The system failed.
Your argument about not having a weak last line of defense is 100% valid though, but the TSA in its current form is bit too incompetent for me, thank you. Maybe I'm wrong, seeing as how my experience with TSA is limited to going through checkpoints and being delayed. Bbut there has to be a better way of doing it, and until there is, should the public just shut up and accept sub-mediocre performance and what amounts to useless ass pain? I personally don't think so, but then again I have, for the entirety of my adult life, been subjected to the demands of exacting standards.
As a side note, Ernie over at Ernie's house of whoop ass blasted the TSA today on his site. LOTS of NSFW stuff there, but some links to TSA horror stories. His politics are sometimes divergent from my own, but he seems pissed about this TSA thing.
Your argument about not having a weak last line of defense is 100% valid though, but the TSA in its current form is bit too incompetent for me, thank you. Maybe I'm wrong, seeing as how my experience with TSA is limited to going through checkpoints and being delayed. Bbut there has to be a better way of doing it, and until there is, should the public just shut up and accept sub-mediocre performance and what amounts to useless ass pain? I personally don't think so, but then again I have, for the entirety of my adult life, been subjected to the demands of exacting standards.
As a side note, Ernie over at Ernie's house of whoop ass blasted the TSA today on his site. LOTS of NSFW stuff there, but some links to TSA horror stories. His politics are sometimes divergent from my own, but he seems pissed about this TSA thing.
You beat me to the SNL skit, my wife and I laughed so hard.
Herc why does somebody need a high horse because he doesnt want to watch his wife and daughter get violated. Yes violated, because if some stranger is touching you there then you feel very violated. If you can sit there and watch this happen to your wife and little girl and not feel upset then how can you call yourself a man, just asking.
Herc why does somebody need a high horse because he doesnt want to watch his wife and daughter get violated. Yes violated, because if some stranger is touching you there then you feel very violated. If you can sit there and watch this happen to your wife and little girl and not feel upset then how can you call yourself a man, just asking.
The ad hominum was a bit uncalled for, don't you think? Just because someone doesn't subscribe to your worldview doesn't mean they're "not a man."
And getting all fired up over some female security professional accidentally bumping your girlfriend/wife's breasts with the side of her hand is somehow manly?
I guess you have not be paying much attention but accidental bumping is not what is occurring.
It was a bit of a left wing move and I apologize. But it gets me fired up, as a man with the basic instinct to protect his family I am astounded that anybody would not get upset watching there family get violated. Nobody believes TSA will stop a determined terrorist, good intel has. The TSA continually fails dry runs and other people who seek out to test the system.
All worldviews are not equal, even Bill Maher says that we can not be so tolerant as to tolerate the intolerant.
It was a bit of a left wing move and I apologize. But it gets me fired up, as a man with the basic instinct to protect his family I am astounded that anybody would not get upset watching there family get violated. Nobody believes TSA will stop a determined terrorist, good intel has. The TSA continually fails dry runs and other people who seek out to test the system.
All worldviews are not equal, even Bill Maher says that we can not be so tolerant as to tolerate the intolerant.
Look at the financial aspect of this war on terrorism. Al Qaeda scored another victory with their $4200 package attack. It's costing us millions in time, TSA wages etc. by our reaction to their proactive action. Bottom line is that they won that little skirmish. They told us years ago that their goal was to make us run ourselves into the ground financially as so far- they've made pretty good on that.
Go to YouTube and enter these words. TSA Don't touch my junk!
(It's the one with the two animated characters in the still screen.) If nothing else it's entertaining. I'd post the link - but the mods probably wouldn't approve, it has bad words in it.
Go to YouTube and enter these words. TSA Don't touch my junk!
(It's the one with the two animated characters in the still screen.) If nothing else it's entertaining. I'd post the link - but the mods probably wouldn't approve, it has bad words in it.
My question to you phrog is how do you see these measures that have been implemented? As a reactive or proactive action? Also, why do we have these procedures almost a year after the incident that supposedly drove to the more thorough pat downs. Seems like it's a little late to the party to start feeling for explosives in underwear almost a year later. Lots of powder could've made it on board airplanes in about a year.
America has become too passive as a whole and are willing to accept measures that are unnecessary and they really don't work, all in the name of political correctness. I've accidentally taken a knife I fly with through security, I use the same Camelbak as a backpack that I fly with, and it's a SOG so it's not a small knife. It went right through the scanner and I didn't even catch it till I was at the connecting gate at my first stop.
Until we get serious and the game changes back to human interaction, gasp, "profiling!" (more than just "Next"!) as a necessary means of screening people, we'll never have a true means. It's been a slow erosion of liberties, I for one believe it started with the Patriot act, which was something I wasn't too fond of either. It'll just continue till we are being strip searched all in the name of security. Where does it go from there, housing troops in private residences, everyone being broken into groups, it's a slippery slope and I for one am glad that there has finally been outrage over something that has pissed me off for years.
Like was mentioned earlier, bombs can be smuggled in buttholes, so does that mean I have to start preparing to have my ass reamed just to go flying?
The question I just thought of is if someone, anyone, tried to come into my home and I subjected them to a pat down like what is being used, how would I not be charged with assault? It's my house and I can have a logical and justified fear that someone might try and hurt me, but if I tried that I'd be thrown in jail in a heartbeat.
I'm not naive enough to think that these security measures will stop everything. What stops these things from going off and planes blowing up is you and me on the airplane that notices the dude trying to light his nutsack on fire and then doing something about it, not some highschool graduate that is just trying to make a buck. If a plane is brought down the TSA guy will just go back to work the next day, hell, he'll probably get a lot of overtime for a while afterwards, but you and I will be a smoldering hole in the ground if we don't act.
Of course they're reactive. I would much prefer a more proactive, El Al-style method vice security theater. Unfortunately CAIR and the like have stopped this type of approach, so now we're in a prevent defense, to borrow a football metaphor.
So, what's left? Thorough passenger searches. If you have a better idea that doesn't involve profiling and such, please share. I'm not defending the ham-handed, pardon the pun, means the TSA has used to implement this. Their public relations prowess is somewhere between Idi Amin and the Menendez brothers. Anything's better than a magnetometer that's just sensitive enough to maybe detect an anvil being carried through.
As far as doing this in your home, well first it would liven up Thanksgiving considerably, especially for crazy Uncle John. I think that if you were willing to gain a reputation as being a bit eccentric, it'd be perfectly legal. You can set whatever criteria you want to enter your home. Once someone agrees to those conditions, it's no longer assault. It's actually analogous to the airport example. If it's so heinously bad, drive, take a train, boat, or whatever.
As to someone's earlier point about defending one's family, whatever. Your wife's a big girl. She can take care of herself, cowboy. As for kids, I do think TSA should develop special procedures for them. It is confusing and scary for small children to be searched, and technical means are probably in order. Honestly, though, after seeing pictures of what Hezbollah has done with children, they can't be exempted completely from some sort of search, although a physical pat-down should be avoided.
So, what's left? Thorough passenger searches. If you have a better idea that doesn't involve profiling and such, please share. I'm not defending the ham-handed, pardon the pun, means the TSA has used to implement this. Their public relations prowess is somewhere between Idi Amin and the Menendez brothers. Anything's better than a magnetometer that's just sensitive enough to maybe detect an anvil being carried through.
As far as doing this in your home, well first it would liven up Thanksgiving considerably, especially for crazy Uncle John. I think that if you were willing to gain a reputation as being a bit eccentric, it'd be perfectly legal. You can set whatever criteria you want to enter your home. Once someone agrees to those conditions, it's no longer assault. It's actually analogous to the airport example. If it's so heinously bad, drive, take a train, boat, or whatever.
As to someone's earlier point about defending one's family, whatever. Your wife's a big girl. She can take care of herself, cowboy. As for kids, I do think TSA should develop special procedures for them. It is confusing and scary for small children to be searched, and technical means are probably in order. Honestly, though, after seeing pictures of what Hezbollah has done with children, they can't be exempted completely from some sort of search, although a physical pat-down should be avoided.
It's one of the easiest and damn near the most effective, and I've been advocating it for years.
BOMB/DRUG/WHATEVER SNIFFING DOGS
The CBP trains beagles to sniff for vegetables in international baggage, investigators train dogs to find dead bodies, ATF to find drugs, etc. I've actually seen a demonstration where these dogs marked on a bag of weed that had been ensconced in concrete.
The plus side is, it's cheap as hell, it's super portable, self cleaning
, and they are amazing at finding even the littlest thing, and getting sniffed by a dog is a lot less intrusive than getting felt up.The down side, it won't make someone a millionaire like these spectral scanners.
I would bet a helluva lot more contraband would be found with dogs than with scanners.
K.I.S.S., Occam's Razor, etc, etc.
Also, can now be done with rats: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3123119.stm
It's one of the easiest and damn near the most effective, and I've been advocating it for years.
BOMB/DRUG/WHATEVER SNIFFING DOGS
The CBP trains beagles to sniff for vegetables in international baggage, investigators train dogs to find dead bodies, ATF to find drugs, etc. I've actually seen a demonstration where these dogs marked on a bag of weed that had been ensconced in concrete.
The plus side is, it's cheap as hell, it's super portable, self cleaning
The down side, it won't make someone a millionaire like these spectral scanners.
I would bet a helluva lot more contraband would be found with dogs than with scanners.
K.I.S.S., Occam's Razor, etc, etc.
I don't know if that was ever entertained, but it's not a bad idea. I think dogs would be better at detecting some things, e.g. C-4 in the ass, and worse at others, e.g. Glock in the waistband. Really this should be a multilayered and randomized security program. You shouldn't know until you're about to get screened whether you're getting the scanner, pat-down, dog, or other option X. Any one means of detection likely has a countermeasure, but if the terrorist doesn't know which defense he's going against on a given day, his attack planning becomes a lot more complicated.