UFOs?

[Hair Warrior]

I think that hypotheticals and “prove it” type replies are kind of a distraction.

There is evidence (e.g. radar/FLIR, E/O photo/video, eyewitness statements) of aerial vehicles or visual phenomena that are unexplained. I would be interested to hear some concrete theories for what they could be, plausibly. Simply hand-waving it away as “We are fine not knowing” and “It just as likely could be my own telekinesis powers” is not the same as providing a viable theory. If some people are correct and this is just a very secret manmade vehicle, it would appear from various documented safety incidents and aviation reports that these vehicles are either not U.S.-operated, or if they are U.S.-operated they don’t seem to adhere to U.S. aviation safety practices.

Dyson sphere!

 

[Pags]

I think that hypotheticals and “prove it” type replies are kind of a distraction.

There is evidence (e.g. radar/FLIR, E/O photo/video, eyewitness statements) of aerial vehicles or visual phenomena that are unexplained. I would be interested to hear some concrete theories for what they could be, plausibly. Simply hand-waving it away as “We are fine not knowing” and “It just as likely could be my own telekinesis powers” is not the same as providing a viable theory. If some people are correct and this is just a very secret manmade vehicle, it would appear from various documented safety incidents and aviation reports that these vehicles are either not U.S.-operated, or if they are U.S.-operated they don’t seem to adhere to U.S. aviation safety practices.

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I said "mylar balloon" like three times. I know it's not the answer you want but it's the one I'm giving.

As to the other ones we've offered some thoughts and since we haven't all said "it's obviously an Chinese/Russian/alien super rich tac!" you haven't been happy with the answer.

 

[Jim123]

What if Earth was seeded with life by humans/others from another planet altogether, a large group of telephone sanitizers (and other similar occupations) whose spaceship crashed here

FIFY

 

[Hair Warrior]

I said "mylar balloon" like three times. I know it's not the answer you want but it's the one I'm giving.

As to the other ones we've offered some thoughts and since we haven't all said "it's obviously an Chinese/Russian/alien super rich tac!" you haven't been happy with the answer.

Mylar balloon for the Tic Tac with CDR Fravor, where it traveled in opposite of the wind direction?

I am onboard with the possibility that it’s Chinese, Russian, or other non-US manufacturer. But if that is true, I think we should be even more concerned since some of the incidents have happened off the coast of S California and off Puerto Rico. We should find out where in China/Russia the vehicles are being built, and how they’re getting the vehicles to California and Puerto Rico without a CV/LHA and without air-air refueiling.

 

[Brett327]

I think at this point the evidence is too overwhelming to chalk every single instance of UAP up to weather and crazy people. It seems like there’s a moral aspect to beliefs that are vehemently against the possibility of ET.

What evidence are you referring to, exactly, and how does it support an extraterrestrial explanation for what is in the pic?

 

[RoarkJr.]

What evidence are you referring to, exactly, and how does it support an extraterrestrial explanation for what is in the pic?

Testimony from people like Luis Elizondo, Rob Lazar, Governor of Arizona...just to name a few, makes you wonder what motive would be behind lying about claims of ET visitation/crashes/technology etc. Is the alien merch/conspiracy market that profitable or beneficial to ones reputation to make it worthwhile?

I don’t know anything about the photo from the article bedsides what the article says. Could be a balloon as the article says, if there is an aircraft holding it. Doesn’t really matter.

 

[Pags]

Testimony from people like Luis Elizondo, Rob Lazar, Governor of Arizona...just to name a few, makes you wonder what motive would be behind lying about claims of ET visitation/crashes/technology etc. Is the alien merch/conspiracy market that profitable or beneficial to ones reputation to make it worthwhile?

I don’t know anything about the photo from the article bedsides what the article says. Could be a balloon as the article says, if there is an aircraft holding it. Doesn’t really matter.

When I googled Rob Lazar it gave his title as "American ufologist." I stopped reading after that. But I'm sure he's going to give sound testimony.

 

[Sonog]

As Roark mentioned, this way of thinking is based on so many assumptions that shouldn't be made when we're considering a topic we know so little about (almost nothing). What if Earth was seeded with life by humans/others from another planet altogether, and they are the "aliens" keeping tabs on us? What if what we observe as the universe is no more than a facade that another civilization shows us? You mention the EM spectrum as if that's the only way possible to detect or be detected. What technologies are possible that we can't even imagine? If someone from a mere century ago saw you using a cell phone and you told them you were talking to someone on the other side of the planet, they would think you were crazy and that that was impossible. How can we say what technology another civilization might use to find us here and then be able to travel to us? After all, in the very unlikely scenario that that is the explanation for these events, they already are using technology we can't fathom the science of.

Why pretend we understand things that we clearly don't? Pretending to understand what is or is not possible in the future is doing exactly that.

By acknowledging the limitations of our knowledge and understanding does not mean we need to jump to fantastical conclusions of "what could be".

 

[Pags]

Mylar balloon for the Tic Tac with CDR Fravor, where it traveled in opposite of the wind direction?

I am onboard with the possibility that it’s Chinese, Russian, or other non-US manufacturer. But if that is true, I think we should be even more concerned since some of the incidents have happened off the coast of S California and off Puerto Rico. We should find out where in China/Russia the vehicles are being built, and how they’re getting the vehicles to California and Puerto Rico without a CV/LHA and without air-air refueiling.

No, mylar balloon for the image in the article I was responding to.

There's no compelling evidence that its Chinese or Russian or other. In fact, if those guys did have a secret tic tac of death I'd imagine they would have revealed it to show their purported superiority. Because at some point "the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret!". And, if they do have a secret tic tac of death we'd probably divulge it's existence to point out the "tic tac gap."

Also, movie quotes aside, I'd be blown away if two countries that can barely a carrier all of a sudden managed to make some sort of quantum leap in aerodynamics without the rest of the world's scientific community being aware of it. For instance, when we dropped an atomic bomb it wasn't a huge surprise to the rest of the world. The Japanese knew it was likely an atomic weapon within hours because they had their own (underfunded) atomic program. Because at some point you can't classify the physics.

 

[Pags]

By acknowledging the limitations of our knowledge and understanding does not mean we need to jump to fantastical conclusions of "what could be".

Or, if it is some sort of hyper being, then will we ever even know about it? If it's beyond our understanding then how can we even hope to look upon it with mere mortal eyes?!

 

[Hair Warrior]

There's no compelling evidence that its Chinese or Russian or other. In fact, if those guys did have a secret tic tac of death I'd imagine they would have revealed it to show their purported superiority. Because at some point "the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret!". And, if they do have a secret tic tac of death we'd probably divulge it's existence to point out the "tic tac gap."

100% concur.

Also, movie quotes aside, I'd be blown away if two countries that can barely a carrier all of a sudden managed to make some sort of quantum leap in aerodynamics without the rest of the world's scientific community being aware of it. For instance, when we dropped an atomic bomb it wasn't a huge surprise to the rest of the world. The Japanese knew it was likely an atomic weapon within hours because they had their own (underfunded) atomic program. Because at some point you can't classify the physics.

100% concur.

So, if it's not a mylar balloon (at least for the objects that change direction sharply and travel against the wind at speeds exceeding 4th gen fighters),

And if it's not Chinese or Russian because, as you point out, they can barely operate in their own backyards,

Then what could it realistically be?

 

[RoarkJr.]

When I googled Rob Lazar it gave his title as "American ufologist." I stopped reading after that. But I'm sure he's going to give sound testimony.

Is it clear that is a self-named title? A lot of those people are also labeled conspiracy theorist, not because they want to be. Calling someone a conspiracy theorist is often used to delegitimize the person.

Anyway, there’s a documentary about him that is pretty interesting. He’s a mad scientist sort of guy who was building rockets in his garage back in the day, and still runs a lab.

 

[Pags]

100% concur.

100% concur.

So, if it's not a mylar balloon (at least for the objects that change direction sharply and travel against the wind at speeds exceeding 4th gen fighters),

And if it's not Chinese or Russian because, as you point out, they can barely operate in their own backyards,

Then what could it realistically be?

Probably a mish mash of drones, balloons, and wonky sensors. It's so easy for anyone to make relatively high performance drones and near orbit capable rockets. I'm sure some hobbyists have combined the two to make some sort of home made cruise missiles.

Could it be something like the above such as a sub launched drone from other countries sent to observe our forces and responses? Also seems possible when combined with sensor shennagins. Or maybe some sort of our own red team with drones/balloons designed to exploit sensor gaps and to verify whether they can be tricked?

 

[Pags]

Is it clear that is a self-named title? A lot of those people are also labeled conspiracy theorist, not because they want to be. Calling someone a conspiracy theorist is often used to delegitimize the person.

Anyway, there’s a documentary about him that is pretty interesting. He’s a mad scientist sort of guy who was building rockets in his garage back in the day, and still runs a lab.

Yeah...it doesn't seem like this guy needs any help with delegitimizing from others, he seems to be doing a fine job on his own.

I too can make wild claims but that doesn't make me right.

 

[Brett327]

Testimony from people like Luis Elizondo, Rob Lazar, Governor of Arizona...just to name a few, makes you wonder what motive would be behind lying about claims of ET visitation/crashes/technology etc. Is the alien merch/conspiracy market that profitable or beneficial to ones reputation to make it worthwhile?

I don’t know anything about the photo from the article bedsides what the article says. Could be a balloon as the article says, if there is an aircraft holding it. Doesn’t really matter.

That's not evidence, which was your original claim.

Calling someone a conspiracy theorist is often used to delegitimize the person.

People making outrageous claims without evidence should be delegitimized. I'm sure you've heard the quote about extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence.

He’s a mad scientist sort of guy who was building rockets in his garage back in the day, and still runs a lab.

Not exactly bolstering your claim with this.