Unbelievable!

[HAL Pilot]

Regardless of whose fault it was, I wonder why they're fighting so vehemently to get their licenses back. They've got to know that no airline is ever going to hire them again, regardless of whether or not they regain their licenses. Is there more to it?

My prediction - these pilots will not only get their licenses back, they will get their jobs back too.

ALPA will fight for these guys tooth and nail. They have to - for the protection of all other pilots. The FAA revoked their licenses on technicalities due to media pressure and prior to completing their investigation. These guys were already grounded by their company and the FAA had other methods to keep them grounded until the investigation was complete. ALPA has to fight this so it does not happen to other pilots. Further, while these guys fucked up big - and yes endangered their pax to a certain extent - there have been many that fucked up even bigger and kept their licenses and jobs. Just days before this incident, a Delta plane landed on a taxiway. Both those pilots are back in the cockpit. The SWA FO that landed long and plowed into a gas station in Burbank is now a SWA Captain.

Further, dispite PR1 H's righteous indignation, ATC did make mistakes that contributed to the length/severity of this incident. Just like any accident/incident, there is a chain of events and extenuating circumstances.

Do I think these guys were wrong and should suffer consequences? Yes. Do I think the consequences should be career ending? I'm not sure. Do I think ALPA should fight to get their licenses and job back? Yes, for the reasons stated above.

 

[BACONATOR]

My prediction - these pilots will not only get their licenses back, they will get their jobs back too.

ALPA will fight for these guys tooth and nail. They have to - for the protection of all other pilots. The FAA revoked their licenses on technicalities due to media pressure and prior to completing their investigation. These guys were already grounded by their company and the FAA had other methods to keep them grounded until the investigation was complete. ALPA has to fight this so it does not happen to other pilots. Further, while these guys fucked up big - and yes endangered their pax to a certain extent - there have been many that fucked up even bigger and kept their licenses and jobs. Just days before this incident, a Delta plane landed on a taxiway. Both those pilots are back in the cockpit. The SWA FO that landed long and plowed into a gas station in Burbank is now a SWA Captain.

Further, dispite PR1 H's righteous indignation, ATC did make mistakes that contributed to the length/severity of this incident. Just like any accident/incident, there is a chain of events and extenuating circumstances.

Do I think these guys were wrong and should suffer consequences? Yes. Do I think the consequences should be career ending? I'm not sure. Do I think ALPA should fight to get their licenses and job back? Yes, for the reasons stated above.

You bring up an extremely valid point. Every other pilot can play arm-chair Captain and throw these guys under the bus, but as demonstrated in the "HUGE Phuckup" thread, I think every one of us who has flown more than a few hours can contribute a story where we fucked up just as badly as these guys in a smaller-scale way.

It's a slippery slope if we throw EVERY pilot under the bus for their indiscretions. Granted these guys screwed the pooch in a big way. But at the end of the day, nobody was hurt, and besides a slight delay, nothing really HAPPENED. This is one of those thankful events where we can slap em on the wrist, chew their ass, make it out as bigger than it is, reinstate em and actually LEARN something from this event and make Aviation Safety a little bit better.

 

[HuggyU2]

"Endangered their passengers"? Really now?

 

[jarhead]

Landing on a taxiway and landing long & running off the runway are both totally jacked up but I seriously doubt any those pilots chose to do it. Those two NW guys chose to do what they did.

Every pilot has or will commit some sort of aerial buffoonery, some more severe than others… but a pilot's willful negligence should be punished more severely than accidental buffoonery.

my 2¢

 

[PR1 H]

"Endangered their passengers"? Really now?

As I'd mentioned before, just the lack of outside cockpit scan, lack of instrument scans, lack of radio traffic scan, and total lack of SA to me puts a lot of people at risk. If these 2 knuckle heads think they can do it... who's to say there isn't another crew doing the same thing? Holes in the cheese start lining up, and next thing you know, there's possibility for commercial mid-air. Hell... if control couldn't contact them to find out what was going on... how would the be warned of an impending impact? Just saying. I understand it gets boring up there, but just because I get bored on midwatch doesn't mean it's ok for me to pop open the laptop and say f**k all to whatever may be happening outside. At least have ONE of them monitoring things.

 

[PR1 H]

So much hatred in this one.

Not towards anyone on this thread mind you. Just want to clear that up. But towards the 2 clowns trying to blame someone else for their screw ups... better believe it. I have a very low tolorance for stupidity. Hence how I started getting called "Spools" in my last command.

 

[A4sForever]

As far as 'endangering the passengers and crew' goes ... I've flown w/ several ... make that wa-a-a-a-a-ay too many pilots over the years that 'endanger' people and machines just by the mere act of them getting outta' bed in the morning ...

What's the difference here??? The difference is these two fools got caught.

The FAA only requires 70% to fly, you know ...

My standards are significantly higher ...

 

[A4sForever]

The latest: [FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Flight attendant caught wayward pilots unaware[/FONT]

These guys are such ... fucking .... liars ... and as a result, they make the rest of us 'look bad' .... I 'know' Cheney ... not in the Biblical sense ... but these guys are still fucking liars. I guess they figure they gotta' do what they gotta' do to cover their "6" ... even though Cheney has no clue what that means ...

Rock on. :captain_1

 

[FlyinRock]

I've had mixed emotions about this whole episode and waited until more info became available. Not unlike waiting to see what actually happened with an accident?
I find it hard to believe these bozos were so bored they missed how many calls from ATC? Or, bothered to check to see where they were? Absolute dereliction of duty in my opinion. Maybe I am just old school but what the fuck are laptops doing in the cockpit during a flight? Looking at emails, porn, AW, ????
What has happened to cockpit discipline? I've known of others who I refused to fly with because of the problems and they said to "ease up". No way. I'm glad I am so old now I'm just called a rasty old bastard and don't have to contend with todays nonsense. Still, it makes me wonder what is going on in the cockpit when I fly commercial.
Ah well, we all die someday ..................
Semper Fi and Merry Christmas to you all
Rocky

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

They gave up on trying to save their licenses...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/15/wayward.pilots.licenses/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[fc2spyguy]

As I'd mentioned before, just the lack of outside cockpit scan, lack of instrument scans, lack of radio traffic scan, and total lack of SA to me puts a lot of people at risk. If these 2 knuckle heads think they can do it... who's to say there isn't another crew doing the same thing? Holes in the cheese start lining up, and next thing you know, there's possibility for commercial mid-air. Hell... if control couldn't contact them to find out what was going on... how would the be warned of an impending impact? Just saying. I understand it gets boring up there, but just because I get bored on midwatch doesn't mean it's ok for me to pop open the laptop and say f**k all to whatever may be happening outside. At least have ONE of them monitoring things.

Well, a couple of things. First, they're operating in Class A airspace, no one is buzzing around up there VFR going wherever the hell they want to. Two, if ATC thinks the a/c lost comms, I assure you ATC is keeping them WELL separated from any of the other traffic out there. While these two things don't keep shit from happening, it goes a long way to mitigating it. I'm now going to attempt to find out the last time a mid-air occured in Class A airspace, I'd be willing to bet it's a LONG time, if ever.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I'm now going to attempt to find out the last time a mid-air occured in Class A airspace, I'd be willing to bet it's a LONG time, if ever.

While you're looking that up, look up the last time two commercial pilots were so oblivious that they overflew their destination by 150 miles. Anyway, this was a dead thread and I just brought it back to life with the latest news regarding the pilots and their fight to keep their licenses.

 

[ryan1234]

Well, a couple of things. First, they're operating in Class A airspace, no one is buzzing around up there VFR going wherever the hell they want to. Two, if ATC thinks the a/c lost comms, I assure you ATC is keeping them WELL separated from any of the other traffic out there. While these two things don't keep shit from happening, it goes a long way to mitigating it. I'm now going to attempt to find out the last time a mid-air occured in Class A airspace, I'd be willing to bet it's a LONG time, if ever.

In the 70's and 80s, about 10 midairs were reported to the FAA annually which occured above FL180... of course now the number is less since things like TCAS...

unless you're a glider:

Story (Hawker vs. Glider - luckily no one was killed)
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20060906X01297&key=2

 

[fc2spyguy]

While you're looking that up, look up the last time two commercial pilots were so oblivious that they overflew their destination by 150 miles. Anyway, this was a dead thread and I just brought it back to life with the latest news regarding the pilots and their fight to keep their licenses.

Not saying that the pilots didn't severely fuck this one away. I just got to the thread, and didn't notice the date. Had death by powerpoint today, brains not too sharp right now.