mpdonnelly
Registered User
Why should the pointy-nose guys have all the fun?
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Unusual Vietnam MiG kills
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
Well, it must have been 3 months or so already...once again Herc on a flightdeck reappears. Here's the gouge:
http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp
or use the search function for "c-130 carrier" on here to review the previous posts.
http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp
or use the search function for "c-130 carrier" on here to review the previous posts.
Didn't you guys here, the MMA will be carrier capable. It will use high lift flaps and slats to allow it to fly at an approach speed of 110kts!!!! It will not need a hook either; rather it will use a magnetic "repeller" (which has to be mounted in the flight deck) to slow itself down. There hasn't been any talk yet of folding wings for carrier ops, as the purpose of the system is to allow the plane to land briefly, drop off cargo, and then take off again - not stay on board as part of the ship's air wing. Basically it will be a super Cod.
One further development, not to be included in the initial production model, will be an anti-gravity device to allow the MMA to operate from forward bases with short runways. This technology is under development at CERN and will hopefully be viable within ten years.
One piece of technology unlikely to make it into the MMA is a digital flight planning program. The navy believes that it is much more accurate for pilots to run charts to determine such useful things as Takeoff distance at training weights on a 12K' runway and 4 engine rates of climb between 2500 and 3000' PA.
Okay, so this is what studying for fleet natops does to your brain. I've got a date with a question bank!
One further development, not to be included in the initial production model, will be an anti-gravity device to allow the MMA to operate from forward bases with short runways. This technology is under development at CERN and will hopefully be viable within ten years.
One piece of technology unlikely to make it into the MMA is a digital flight planning program. The navy believes that it is much more accurate for pilots to run charts to determine such useful things as Takeoff distance at training weights on a 12K' runway and 4 engine rates of climb between 2500 and 3000' PA.
Okay, so this is what studying for fleet natops does to your brain. I've got a date with a question bank!
mpdonnelly
Registered User
It took off that way. The dubious honor goes to VMF(AW)-235. The Marines ... Blood for the Corps ... gotta' love 'em !!beau said:
This has evidently happened about 5 times; some landed with wings folded, some managed to extend them in flight - which is probably also a first.
VMF(AW)-235 was originally equipped with the F-8A in 1957 while based at Beaufort, SC. Over the years the Death Angels (a.k.a. "Red Noses") flew the F8A, F8D and the F8E versions of the aircraft. VMF(AW)-235 was the last Marine Corps squadron to fly this great bird.
While we are talking about the Forrestal (CVA-59), VMF(AW)-235 CQ'ed on her in 1962. After the Cuban Missile Crises the squadron deployed throughout WestPac to NAS Atsugi, MCAS Iwakuni, NAS Cubi Pt., Danang, back to Iwakuni, with the squadron flag finally ending up in MCAS Kaneohe where they transitioned to F-4J Phantom II's in 1968. The unit was redesignated VMFA-235. They flew F/A-18's in Desert Storm.
The "Death Angels" stood up at El Centro in 1943 and were decomissioned at Miramar in 1996 -- 53 years. (I think all the dates are correct; if not, the error is mine...A4s)
mpdonnelly
Registered User
But why were the wings folded? Was someone careless with a checklist or was this some experiment to speed up flight operations on the flight deck? The F-8 isn't known for its safety record, perhaps this was a malfunction of some kind?
flyingswo said:
Why? Well, why does a dog .... aaahh, you get the picture. If it can happen, it will.
Some were caused by malfunctions. Was someone careless? You bet, at least in the cases of wings folded on T/O's. I know of one instance where the F-8 driver got near the end of the runway -- got into traffic -- folded his wings -- moved through the ground traffic (must have been a tight fit and a big hurry, huh?) -- and took off with wings folded. BINGO !! Another story for his memory book .... I also heard of an AD launched from a carrier in the Korean War (night) with wings folded
-- he made it to the beach. Pilots, flight deck personnel, friends, neighbors ... ANYONE OUT THERE ???Can't happen to you ? Anything can happen to any of us on any given day ---or night.
On a night solo fam-refresher hop in the A-4 I arrived at the end of the runway and just before calling for take-off I realized that I had been out of the Tinker-Toy at night for 4 years and I couldn't remember where half of the switches were in the now darkened cockpit.
REAL SMART. Like a glass of cold water tossed in my face. What will I do now? Go back to the line and shut down? Or Suck It Up and go fly? O.K., suck it up and launch :icon_smil ... Not too smart on my part. The "syllabus" was basically self-taught in that unit -- things were "loose" and I was totally within the so-called syllabus guidelines -- just not too smart. But I couldn't look bad -- you'd die before looking bad ... oh, the ignorance and arrogance of youth.Things were "looser" then (obviously) and I should have come out sometime that afternoon and sat in the seat and reviewed "switchology" ... but I didn't. I was a hot-shot Fleet Aviator, I was good, ... and mainly I just didn't think about it. Result: on this night I almost embarrassed myself, big time.
But before we pre-judge others too harshly and spiral down into that category of second-guesser know as the "Ready-Room Commando", just remember one truth about Aviation: "There are those who have, and those who will ..." You might be the butt of derision some fine day and live on in the fables of Naval Aviation for all the wrong reasons. Pay attention and do your job.
UNFORTUNATELY, this thread has moved totally off the subject of Vietnam and MiG kills....... but I guess it's still kind of "historical"??
mpdonnelly
Registered User
Back to the subject of MiG kills: I saw this a while ago, but haven't been able to track it down recently, it was a story of the last F-8 MiG kill of the war. Two F-8's caught up with a lone MiG and started to move in for the kill when the MiG pilot dove low over the water and ejected without a shot being fired. I guess the sight of two gunslingers coming at him was more than he could take. Another theory held that the plane was unarmed and that it was a training flight. The guy probably did the smart thing by punching early, otherwise he might not have had the chance.
My grandfather was an engineer back in the day (late 40s-50s) aboard Essex class carriers, and he's told me some interesting stories regarding the F8F Bearcat. The Bearcat apparently had a weird design feature that allowed the pilot to use explosive bolts to detach the folding wingtips if necessary (I've never heard when it would be necessary to detach your wingtips). These bolts used to malfunction a fair bit, resulting in Bearcats coming back sans wingtips or putting pilots in the water.
Pags said:
SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND ....
By the last half of the Second World War, most new US fighter designs were much heavier and more complex than earlier fighters. When planning a replacement for their successful F6F Hellcat carrier fighter, however, Grumman chose to built as lightweight a design as possible around the most reliable large radial engine. The result was the F8F Bearcat, which was often called a "hot rod" by its pilots for its fantastic acceleration and climbing ability.
The Bearcat was the first US Navy fighter to feature a full "bubble" canopy, giving excellent all around vision .... It was also fitted with so called "Safety Wing Tips", the outer 40 inches of which were designed to break off cleanly in case of the wing being overstressed in a dive or other maneuver. After several incidents where one or both wing tips tore off, this feature was eliminated from later production Bearcats ....
Two squadrons, VF-18 and VF-19 were equipped with F8F-1s, and training was expedited in order to get the new fighter into service against Japanese suicide attack planes in the Pacific. VF-19 was onboard the carrier USS Langley, enroute across the Pacific, when the war ended on August 16, 1945.
Well there ya have it. I would think it would be worse if only one wingtip came off.
I know the F2G Corsair was also designed with a bubble canopy. The F2G was an offshoot of the original Corsair design that was built by Goodyear (hence the "G"). It was designed to maximize climb rate to counter the Kamikaze threat. Once the war ended, the production run was cancelled, but a few managed to find their way onto the racing circuit.
I know the F2G Corsair was also designed with a bubble canopy. The F2G was an offshoot of the original Corsair design that was built by Goodyear (hence the "G"). It was designed to maximize climb rate to counter the Kamikaze threat. Once the war ended, the production run was cancelled, but a few managed to find their way onto the racing circuit.