NEWS US involvement in Iran

[Hair Warrior]

Gotta love the news media. Give the terrain a catchy new English name (Pickaxes!) which is definitely not the local name. Claim it is Secret! and Hidden! when it’s literally adjacent to the well-known nuclear site. It’s like when I set the gatorade down right next to my kid’s cleats and he runs around indoors with his cleats on for 15 minutes because he claims he couldn’t find the gatorade.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

Perhaps you can point to aspects of the Trump admin where conservative values are best exemplified.

As always, you miss the points that I and others make.
You made a statement... "it’s that all conservative values are a facade to the acquisition of political power".
I was responding to that statement. Nothing more.
If it were to have said '... all current conservative values...", than I would have to respond with, "please explain how is this different than all current liberal values being a facade to the acquisition of political power."

 

[Flash]

That said though, pretty much the only things the GOP seems to restrict are abortion and LGBTQ. On the other hand, the political Left has (d)evolved into a type of fascist party in which other than an unlimited right to abortion and an extremist take on LGBTQ rights, it is all about central control. Everything you can say, do, eat, drink, drive, whether you can own guns, how much money you can make, etc...there is no limit to what they seek to control. Environmentalism and LGBTQ have become a form of secular religion to them. Any questioning of the orthodoxy gets one deemed a fascist/Nazi/hater and they will seek to destroy you. The college campuses, with their campus speech codes, safe spaces, TRIGGER WARNING!'s, lack of due process, etc...are a good example of such fascism.

 

[taxi1]

unelected (and likely ideologically driven) bureaucrats

Have you ever met a bureaucrat? I mean, actually?

View attachment 42856
Gotta love the news media. Give the terrain a catchy new English name (Pickaxes!) which is definitely not the local name. Claim it is Secret! and Hidden! when it’s literally adjacent to the well-known nuclear site. It’s like when I set the gatorade down right next to my kid’s cleats and he runs around indoors with his cleats on for 15 minutes because he claims he couldn’t find the gatorade.

Sad

 

[vxc961]

There is (more likely was) an axiom in journalism that if a story required one or two anonymous sources it should not be published because of potential bias. The accepted number is (was) closer to five or six. So, I instinctively question any story that doesn’t name a single source by name. Across the news world there are plenty of experts talking about known, unknowns, and possibilities and I find their analysis more thoughtful and balanced especially when they tell their audience about the limits of their knowledge.

Now, do I believe Trump when he said it was “totally obliterated?” Absolutely not, he is known for his bombast and over-glorification of anything he touches. Do I trust the New York Times…no. Sure, I’ll say the NYT has a leftward tilt but their errors of fact, swinging left and right, going back to 2000 caused me to lose trust in the paper. As I noted, I imagine the truth is somewhere between Trump’s bombast and the NYTs use of anonymous sources.

Sure, anonymous sources aren’t great. It just seems like there are bigger fish to fry on this one. I’m inferring here, but it seems likely somebody wanted a BDA stat(!), and this particular report probably has intel-speak like “low level of confidence”, and “somewhat likely…” when it came to those conclusions.

I don’t think any f-stick reporter these days would understand or investigate those nuances…NYT, WSJ or just about any of them.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I’m concerned about the administration ignoring intel, or perhaps demanding intel that confirms what they already believe.

 

[Swanee]

Sure, anonymous sources aren’t great. It just seems like there are bigger fish to fry on this one. I’m inferring here, but it seems likely somebody wanted a BDA stat(!), and this particular report probably has intel-speak like “low level of confidence”, and “somewhat likely…” when it came to those conclusions.

I don’t think any f-stick reporter these days would understand or investigate those nuances…NYT, WSJ or just about any of them.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I’m concerned about the administration ignoring intel, or perhaps demanding intel that confirms what they already believe.

There's a good episode of the John Sipher /Jerry O'Shea podcast, Mission Implausible, that discusses some of what's going on today and perhaps compares it a bit to what happen that lead to the Bush Administration invading Iraq due to non-existent WMDs.

One of the things I thought was interesting was that the CIA and the military analysts were trying to make educated guesses based on very little information due to a lack of collection assets and capabilities.

Obviously no one here can speak to our intelligence collection capabilities on nuke sites in Iran. But I wonder if we're in a similar scenario.

Analysts vs. Operations in The Middle East (with David McCloskey) - Mission Implausible | iHeart

<p>CIA analyst turned best-selling spy novelist David McCloskey visits with old friends John & Jerry where they look at the CIA and their experiences in The Middle East before, during and after The Arab Spring. With a survey of what's happening in The Middle East currently.</p>

www.iheart.com

 

[wink]

If we’ve learned anything during the past few years, it’s that all conservative values are a facade to the acquisition of political power. Abortion bad… until you knock up your mistress, etc, etc.

Generalize much? Most anyone in politics or the pursuit of power will claim to ascribe to whatever values or principles, liberal or conservative, they feel will advance their pursuit of power at the time. For the rest of us unwashed masses whether liberal or conservative the values that we try and live by are for our own personal benefit to help guide us at many levels of our lives. I daresay, hearkening back to a previous comment by @Griz882 , most people hold elements of both liberal and conservative, values at the same time.

 

[Random8145]

Have you ever met a bureaucrat? I mean, actually?

Nope. But I can see the behavior of certain bureaucracies. Certain ones can be quite ideologically driven and/or arrogant depending on the bureaucracy and the subject (ex: environment, gun control, taxes).