USMC Aviation/Introduction.

[SCUBA]

I find it amusing that the USMC places so much emphasis on one's physical fitness. I think that as long as you can pass the damn PFT and do a good job at whatever you do you should be good to go. Now before anyone jumps all over me, I'm a prior service Marine and see the correlation of fitness to leadership and combat capability. However, I think that this emphasis does not necessarily make you a better candidate/leader/pilot. For example from my understanding ASTB scores are not even considered a competitive factor and neither is the ASVAB/SAT's. They are more like a check in the box, in contrast, you can have a candidate with the bare minimums including a low GPA and a 300 PFT and he's immediately considered the better candidate.
To those that read this, It may sound like I'm bitter and what not and perhaps you are right. I did my 5 years and attained the rank of Sergeant. During my service I had the opportunity to go to school for both my degree and flight training. I was able to attain a decent GPA and upon joining the civilian ranks I worked my way up to my current job as an airline pilot

Now as to why am I bitter/ frustrated. My instinct told me that if I was to go back in the service and fly, the Air Force seems like it would be the best choice as far as family and QOL. After over a years worth of paperwork, AFOQT, Flight Physicals, and what in my opinion is a string of lazy recruiters, I missed the time frame and can't apply until next year due to overstaffing. Now, I know that after reading this it appears that the Marines is a second choice but to be honest it isn’t. I believe that I earned the title and therefore the Marines were always first. The only problem is that having to prove that once again is not up there on my list of fun things to do.

My small Air Force set back has given me a bit of extra time to think what I really wanted to do with my life. Let me tell you guys, airline flying is the most boring kind of flying that you can do. It does nothing for me so doing something tactical really attracts me. The Air Force has their fair share of Tactical birds but their numbers are slowly decreasing while the airline style airlift (not Hercs of course) seems to be on the rise. In contrast, Marine aviation revolves around combat. I know this and have seen it first hand.

Now as to the point of my story….just venting and wanting to introduce myself. Without to Corps I would not be were I’m at today so I’m very thankful for that. It just sucks that I have to spend my 16 days off a month PT’ing in order to get in shape . I hate running…..

Semper Fi.

Now since everyone likes to post their stats here you go.

AFQT: 93
ASTB: 8/8
AFOQT: P:99 N:97 AA:89 V:90 Q:82
3.44 GPA Management
2,500 hrs. Flight Time.
USMC E-5
PFT: 80/12/27:00 haha!

 

[T-man]

Welcome aboard! and after reading your post, all I can say is, good luck! hats off to you for being prior service. I often wish I had made the decision to go prior service, but that is too late for me now as my age window is fast diminishing.

 

[vvmountainvv]

Just a thought...the Marine Corps places pretty heavy faith on the fact that just about anyone can be trained for almost any job. An officer candidate has demonstrated he has at least some mental aptitude by graduating college, so i would guess the Corps figures if that candidate can meet the minimum mental standards for an aviation contract, then he/she can complete the training. so what is left over to decide who gets to go to OCS and who doesn't basically comes down to the PFT, perhaps?

if someone is disciplined enough to train to a 280, 290, or 300 PFT then maybe they also have the discipline to study their a** off through flight school.

I'm not saying a less fit individual couldn't do just as well in becoming a pilot, but the Marine Corps has its ways...

good luck man.

 

[KBayDog]

find it amusing that the USMC places so much emphasis on one's physical fitness. I think that as long as you can pass the damn PFT and do a good job at whatever you do you should be good to go. Now before anyone jumps all over me, I'm a prior service Marine and see the correlation of fitness to leadership and combat capability. However, I think that this emphasis does not necessarily make you a better candidate/leader/pilot. For example from my understanding ASTB scores are not even considered a competitive factor and neither is the ASVAB/SAT's. They are more like a check in the box, in contrast, you can have a candidate with the bare minimums including a low GPA and a 300 PFT and he's immediately considered the better candidate...I believe that I earned the title and therefore the Marines were always first. The only problem is that having to prove that once again is not up there on my list of fun things to do.

When you were in boot camp, you had recruits that were going to be grunts and recruits that were going to be in the D&B Corps in D.C. The grunt Marine would see combat, and the D&B Marine would never see outside the Beltway. Did it make a lick of difference when it came to qualifying on the range? No. Every recruit had to qualify in order to become a Marine. Did it matter come PFT time? No. Every recruit had to pass it in order to become a Marine. Etc, etc, etc.

It is no different in the officer corps. Regardless of whether you are going to lead Marines as an infantry platoon commander or as an adjutant, you are going to lead Marines, and there are certain standards that must be met. The Corps expects its officers to be physically fit and lead from the front, so they are going to seek those who are willing to put the time and effort into getting into/staying in shape. Yes, it is easier for some than others, but being physically fit is a standard that all Marine officers must meet. And, whether you like it or not, physical fitness is looked at as an indicator of motivation to lead, and is one of the big things that enlisted Marines look for in their officers. What does it look like if an officer falls out of the monthly battalion formation run? Hell, I remember laughing at SNCOs who would fall out...I couldn't fathom an officer dropping out!

Remember, just because you have awesome test scores and are already an experienced pilot, an aviation guarantee in the Marine Corps only means that you are guaranteed a chance to go to flight school. If something happens at OCS/TBS/flight school, and you are suddenly not qualified, you still need to lead Marines in whatever duty the Corps decides you are qualified for.

As far as earning the title - you did earn it. Nobody can or will take it away from you. I earned it on the parade deck of Parris Island...but still had to go to OCS - as a sergeant! Did it make me happy? Of course not. However, it was one of the hurdles I had to cross to earn my commission. If you want it badly enough, you will do whatever it takes.

That said, your stats look very, VERY competitive...except for the PFT score. Get that 80/12/27 down to a 100/17/21, and you should be golden.

Let me know if I can help you with anything.

S/F

 

[SCUBA]

VVMOUNTAINVV:

The only problem with that logic is that physical ability does not directly translate into mental capability and one only has to see the statistics of student pilots and their attrition rates in order to get a direct correlation. A perfect example is how the Air Force does it. Who gets their flight slots? The guys with the highest AFOQT/PCSM/GPA, in addition to the whole person concept. This is only intended as an observation more than anything. My next question is why does the Marine Corps send the guys with the highest amount of flight time to JSUPT. Perhaps it is to lower attrition rates in the Air Force training environment…I don’t know.

 

[SCUBA]

KBayDog.

I'm with you 100% on that post. Like I said I'm working on it. It's just crazy how I read a post on someone running a 23:30 PFT and that they would immediately be put on probation at OCC. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[vvmountainvv]

ATR-

i see your point, and it is valid....just so you know they aren't necessarily sending Marines with the most prior flight time to JSUPT...the majority of Marines while i was there (including me) had only the 25 hours of cessna time that the Marine Corps paid for. and we did just as well as the CFII 1000+ hour types...it all has to do with how much you are willing to put in to your own training. best of luck, hope you get your slot in which ever service you choose.

 

[SCUBA]

ATR-

i see your point, and it is valid....just so you know they aren't necessarily sending Marines with the most prior flight time to JSUPT...the majority of Marines while i was there (including me) had only the 25 hours of cessna time that the Marine Corps paid for. and we did just as well as the CFII 1000+ hour types...it all has to do with how much you are willing to put in to your own training. best of luck, hope you get your slot in which ever service you choose.

I got that info from another thread so I should have known better. What are you flying right now?

 

[SoICanBeFree]

I'm glad they select based on pft.

I think the logic is that if you don't have at least a first class pft, the chance of you attriting at OCS and TBS is much higher. And ps it really isn't all that tough to attain max out on the pft if your not a slob, think of it as a kick in the butt in pushing you towards a better fitness lifestyle.

 

[SCUBA]

I think the logic is that if you don't have at least a first class pft, the chance of you attriting at OCS and TBS is much higher. And ps it really isn't all that tough to attain max out on the pft if your not a slob, think of it as a kick in the butt in pushing you towards a better fitness lifestyle.

Dude I'm not arguing the point that you need the first class PFT. It's the minima set forth. However, to imply that someone that does not max out on the PFT is a slob is ludicrous and disrespectful to all the good Marines out there don't meet your unrealistic expectation.

 

[skidkid]

In the fleet not everyone maxes it out and there isnt a problem, people can distinguish themselves by maxing it out (good) or not getting a first class (very bad) The reason there is so muhc emphasis on PT in the selection and training pipelins is that the perponderence of applicants are in college. If you cant run a 250+ with college the competition for your time you will have issues when working 14+ hour days in a squadron when you may or may not have time to PT everyday.

 

[Sabre170]

Not sure what your age is, but I too am a prior enlisted Marine Sergeant. I was up against a wall with my age and was selected by the Navy. Their OCS is a joke and you only have to run 1.5 miles push ups and sit ups (push ups are a lot easier to improve on than pull ups).

However, that being said... I wish I was a Marine Officer, but am greatful for the opportunity the Navy has given me and I will do my best to make the Navy proud... plus I still get to hang out with Marines.

Once a Marine always a Marine!

 

[SCUBA]

I'm also looking at the Navy. I'm 25 and my Navy scores are 58 8/8/8. However, like you said being a prior Marine makes you want to stay.

 

[KBayDog]

KBayDog.

I'm with you 100% on that post. Like I said I'm working on it. It's just crazy how I read a post on someone running a 23:30 PFT and that they would immediately be put on probation at OCC. Just doesn't make sense.

It is crazy, especially when you are coming from the Fleet, where some Marines struggle to get 3 pull-ups and come in at a solid 27:59. With a 24:00 PFT in the Fleet, you are usually in good shape. However when 249 candidates in your company are getting sub-21:00 run times, all of a sudden 23:59 looks pretty shotty.

I wouldn't sweat it. Your run time will come down once you start training regularly. And if you can't max the PFT, that's fine, too - not everyone can, nor do they expect everyone to be able to (that's where professional reputation and MOS proficiency far outweigh a semi-annual score).

But, in order to be competitive at OCS, you need to be in the 270+ range.

 

[nocal80]

I find it amusing that the USMC places so much emphasis on one's physical fitness

I find that statement amusing.