OCS USN Waiver Process

[Metromedic]

That was from N3M years ago and it is fairly well known, if a person is accepted on a waiver anything that later is found to be an issue that will lead to some amount of disability pay. If they bring him in and then later he has hip issues then he will or could get pay for it as once he is discharged.

A Captain at N3M put it pretty blunt, there is always another person who wants to join, so why would they waiver every person that they review. I called and talked to the Captain once about a guy who was a great person and I thought would make a great officer, he said "Chief, is this the only candidate that can do this job for the USN", I said no, then he said "well Chief, go out and find that other guy that can do the same job"

That’s just poor leadership and frame of mind in my opinion. I mean I get it. Needs of the navy, but come on.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

That’s just poor leadership and frame of mind in my opinion. I mean I get it. Needs of the navy, but come on.

Whether you like it or not the USN is a business, we have a budget, the government has a budget, the more money we pay out in disability is money that takes away from other programs, I am 100% for legitimate disability payments. If we don't minimize risk then we will end up paying out money that we shouldn't.

I know 2 people that never should have been allowed in the service and if they had been truthful/waivers not approved they wouldn't have served and subsequently not been receiving disability payments, both are 100% both had substance issues prior to joining as well as childhood abuse, both were later discharged with 100% disability due to PTSD, and I can tell you that while the docs said the PTSD was service related what caused it was before they came in the service as I know the families of both. They now get close to 40K each and there are veterans who have legitimate issues fighting for disability, if we were more stringent on the entrance part maybe it wouldn't be as hard for guys to get the pay they earned.

Yes it sucks that someone might not get to serve when they really want to, and I do feel for those people.

 

[UInavy]

That was from N3M years ago and it is fairly well known, if a person is accepted on a waiver anything that later is found to be an issue that will lead to some amount of disability pay. If they bring him in and then later he has hip issues then he will or could get pay for it as once he is discharged.

A Captain at N3M put it pretty blunt, there is always another person who wants to join, so why would they waiver every person that they review. I called and talked to the Captain once about a guy who was a great person and I thought would make a great officer, he said "Chief, is this the only candidate that can do this job for the USN", I said no, then he said "well Chief, go out and find that other guy that can do the same job"

'Fairly well known' by whom? Where? Is it written? Is it something that is talked about at periodic recruiter or medical training?

It's not the job of an O-6 at N3M to manage risk for potential future disability pay. If all he told you was "Go find someone else", we can Occam's razor this and assume that he'd rather not review the waiver paperwork.

The ARWG spells out in great detail what is and isn't waiverable for both new accessions and active aviation personnel. Nowhere in there does it mention future disability pay. If you think the Navy is a business that is that forward-thinking in terms of fiscal obligations, well... I admire your optimism.

Bottom line- bring in the best qualified for each position. If that means a bit more paperwork for the recruiter or the medical folks, then do it. Ascribing a 'no' to some nebulous concern for 'future disability pay' that isn't codified or written anywhere is passing bad gouge at best and something else entirely at worst.

 

[UInavy]

Whether you like it or not the USN is a business, we have a budget, the government has a budget, the more money we pay out in disability is money that takes away from other programs, I am 100% for legitimate disability payments. If we don't minimize risk then we will end up paying out money that we shouldn't.

I know 2 people that never should have been allowed in the service and if they had been truthful/waivers not approved they wouldn't have served and subsequently not been receiving disability payments, both are 100% both had substance issues prior to joining as well as childhood abuse, both were later discharged with 100% disability due to PTSD, and I can tell you that while the docs said the PTSD was service related what caused it was before they came in the service as I know the families of both. They now get close to 40K each and there are veterans who have legitimate issues fighting for disability, if we were more stringent on the entrance part maybe it wouldn't be as hard for guys to get the pay they earned.

What you have described are two people who were dishonest during recruiting about substance abuse, not someone with a waiverable hip condition that they're not hiding. Apples and oranges, man. The disability system isn't great- there are quite a few folks with cpap machines scooping up some sweet disability that has nothing to do with their time in the military. However, knowing two folks that were dishonest at accession shouldn't keep a qualified kid reading this from applying for a waiver.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

What you have described are two people who were dishonest during recruiting about substance abuse, not someone with a waiverable hip condition that they're not hiding. Apples and oranges, man. The disability system isn't great- there are quite a few folks with cpap machines scooping up some sweet disability that has nothing to do with their time in the military. However, knowing two folks that were dishonest at accession shouldn't keep a qualified kid reading this from applying for a waiver.

Actually one was honest and given a waiver one was not, which is why I said (if they had been truthful/waivers not approved) however given that the one was given a waiver I would put a small bet (5 dollars) that the other would have been approved as well.

I am not saying he shouldn't try, especially after he said it was only a 3 month wait as typical wait is 6 months. If he had the proper wait for that surgery and BUMED said "no", then going to another recruiter who will also ask BUMED is not really a good plan, now it sounds as if the OP didn't know the medical routes all led to BUMED, and it seems as if has a valid path to ask again as it was under 6 months from surgery to asking BUMED for the waiver after surgery. He will likely need a few consults for BUMED to properly evaluate his hip, so this path may take many months and he needs to be prepared for that, hopefully his recruiter let him know that.

 

[Kyle42]

That is your in right there, typically there is a 6 month wait, you need to make sure that is emphasized.

Often they will not review PT notes, they will want the doctor to review them and write up his determination.

Thank you for the responsiveness. I’ve got clearing letters from the surgeon and physical therapists. November 13th marked 6 months since the surgery. Would you recommend trying to resubmit with the USMC and have them emphasize the amount of time it’s been or is this just something to keep in mind with my current Navy medical records or even both?

 

[Kyle42]

It is up to the medical facility to determine if they will see you or not, or any military facility for that matter. In general most military facilities will not see non-military unless it is a dependent, we had to jump through all types of hoops to get person seen, and that was after a call to the CO of that facility from the CO of our NRD, some facilities are more easy going though.

On the forms there is a spot where you have to put if you were ever denied entry into any of the services, you will need to mark yes and why, the hurdle you have to overcome is that when that medical facility sees that, then that the highest level of waiver turned you down why would they see you, what needs to happen is that you need your OR to talk to BUMED to see what evidence they will need to give you a waiver. It is that specific as I have done it before, I just asked point blank what evidence do you need to give a waiver and in that 1 case is when my guy was sent to a medical facility, in the other cases they said no amount of evidence will lead us to chance our determination.

Well I am in fact of a dependent which may be good. My dad and grandfather were both Marines, kind of the reasoning behind all the heartbreak in not getting a waiver. But I’m very interested in whatever it is I have to do. If I were to get to a facility somehow they could see my hip has no physical limits and is pain free.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Thank you for the responsiveness. I’ve got clearing letters from the surgeon and physical therapists. November 13th marked 6 months since the surgery. Would you recommend trying to resubmit with the USMC and have them emphasize the amount of time it’s been or is this just something to keep in mind with my current Navy medical records or even both?

I would say it depends who is going to help you out, if that is the USN than go with them.

 

[Kyle42]

That’s just poor leadership and frame of mind in my opinion. I mean I get it. Needs of the navy, but come on.

I get it as well. The Navy or USMC can’t be dishing out everything they have to disability pay, just sucks because most people I know who weren’t fully honest about their medical history got through OCS just fine.

 

[Kyle42]

I would say it depends who is going to help you out, if that is the USN than go with them.

Understood, I’ll try and sort that out.

 

[Kyle42]

Well I am in fact of a dependent which may be good. My dad and grandfather were both Marines, kind of the reasoning behind all the heartbreak in not getting a waiver. But I’m very interested in whatever it is I have to do. If I were to get to a facility somehow they could see my hip has no physical limits and is pain free.

I wonder if my Navy Officer Recruiter is thinking something similar to this by trying to get me into Walter Reed for this “pre commission physical readiness exam”

 

[Mode]

I wonder if my Navy Officer Recruiter is thinking something similar to this by trying to get me into Walter Reed for this “pre commission physical readiness exam”

I went through the pre-commissioning physical process at a military hospital and avoided MEPS. The process was very easy and I think in the end saved me a lot of time and headache. I don’t think your recruiter is trying to pull a fast one on you. I think they are legitimately trying to help you out due to your medical history.

I had a knee surgery in 2017, so my recruiter recommended processing through a hospital. I did my physical along with another candidate who had a hand surgery a few years back. He had originally gone to MEPS and had been going back and forth with them for over 6 months trying to get cleared. Long story short, we went to the military hospital and got looked at by a doctor and cleared in 2 days. There are a few posts here on AW about going to a MTF (military treatment facility) vs MEPS. There are benefits and drawbacks to both, however, it seems like the general consensus is that if you have even a slightly complicated medical history that MTF is the way to go. exNavyOffRec is probably far more knowledgeable on the topic. This has just been my experience.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I went through the pre-commissioning physical process at a military hospital and avoided MEPS. The process was very easy and I think in the end saved me a lot of time and headache. I don’t think your recruiter is trying to pull a fast one on you. I think they are legitimately trying to help you out due to your medical history.

I had a knee surgery in 2017, so my recruiter recommended processing through a hospital. I did my physical along with another candidate who had a hand surgery a few years back. He had originally gone to MEPS and had been going back and forth with them for over 6 months trying to get cleared. Long story short, we went to the military hospital and got looked at by a doctor and cleared in 2 days. There are a few posts here on AW about going to a MTF (military treatment facility) vs MEPS. There are benefits and drawbacks to both, however, it seems like the general consensus is that if you have even a slightly complicated medical history that MTF is the way to go. exNavyOffRec is probably far more knowledgeable on the topic. This has just been my experience.

MTF is better IF you can get in for the commissioning physical, each location is different.

 

[Kyle42]

I went through the pre-commissioning physical process at a military hospital and avoided MEPS. The process was very easy and I think in the end saved me a lot of time and headache. I don’t think your recruiter is trying to pull a fast one on you. I think they are legitimately trying to help you out due to your medical history.

I had a knee surgery in 2017, so my recruiter recommended processing through a hospital. I did my physical along with another candidate who had a hand surgery a few years back. He had originally gone to MEPS and had been going back and forth with them for over 6 months trying to get cleared. Long story short, we went to the military hospital and got looked at by a doctor and cleared in 2 days. There are a few posts here on AW about going to a MTF (military treatment facility) vs MEPS. There are benefits and drawbacks to both, however, it seems like the general consensus is that if you have even a slightly complicated medical history that MTF is the way to go. exNavyOffRec is probably far more knowledgeable on the topic. This has just been my experience.

This all makes a lot more sense now. I thought they were were pushing me to the back and giving me the minimum but after all you and exNavyOffRec have informed me of it seems they’re just doing what’s in my best interest. Thanks for responding and for the useful knowledge.

 

[Kyle42]

MTF is better IF you can get in for the commissioning physical, each location is different.

It’s taking quite some time, Walter Reed is booked for commissioning physical through January but I suppose patience will be the name of the game if I want to make this work. The reasoning behind why it’s taking some time is now a lot more clear now though and thank you for that because I was stressed they were just brushing me off.