My observations have been that the military, including USNA, plays the PC game, and then when something backfires, often tries to hide what happened.
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USNA Color Guard, Overly PC?
- Thread starter cfam
- Start date
My observations have been that the military, including USNA, plays the PC game, and then when something backfires, often tries to hide what happened.
Nothing new. It's been going on for years. When I was instructing in Advanced (F-9s) we had a minority student that just couldn't "get" instrument flying. The kindest writeup that I saw said - Student is hypnotized by the atitude gyro. After he'd been sent to the admiral twice, the admiral called the XO and said "Don't send him up here again. He will get his wings. We don't have enough of these guys. Do what you cn for him." And that was in the mid-sixties
Couldn't agree more. It's getting to the point where it turns into 'forced reverse racism'. I don't care if you're black, blue, purple, or yellow as long as you're qualified and capable of succeeding then you're good in my book.
Complete PC BS at it's finest. If you ask me that shows a severe lack of integrity on the part of the leadership that allows this kind of thing to happen.
Am I missing something here?
Eight members of the the 28 member USNA color guard went to the World Series. All eight were supposed to take part but two did not because one guy forgot his shoes. Am I getting anything wrong yet? So where the hell is the story? How were the two supposed 'additions' replacing anyone if they were all supposed to march? Sounds like one guy forgot his shoes so he and another didn't march out on the field, and that was it. Are the color guards set teams or do they adjust for the situation? Is it even a big deal to be on the color guard there? At my school it sure as hell wasn't.
If they were supposed to add diversity to the team it is not like they did a great job anyways, a white gal and a 'slightly more tanned guy'?
Seriously, all the righteous indignation is pretty funny. I can list, like many others here, the occasional gal and minority who got some special breaks in the military. I can also name a few ass-kissers, Admiral/General's kids and just plain assholes who got breaks too. They may not be as 'visible' but they account for a lot more than the occasional woman/minority that gets through because of who they are. Either way, the vast majority of time the Navy has a way of eventually 'fixing' those who slip through the cracks for one reason or another, often through self-selection.
One more thing, did anyone forget the point of an honor guard? While they represent the country first and foremost they are representing the institution/organization they come from too. If they are supposed to represent the USNA what the hell is wrong with trying to make sure they represent the student body? It's not like it happens elsewhere in the military without anyone raising hackles. The Marine Silent Drill Team, the 3rd Infantry 'Old Guard' at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and every other drill team I can think of has strict physical appearance requirements, height is a big one that comes to mind. Ever notice they all 'look' the part? That is not by accident. So where is the protests from all the short 'Napoleons' in the Marines who will never get a chance twirl a rifle at a basketball game halftime show? Gimme a break people......
Eight members of the the 28 member USNA color guard went to the World Series. All eight were supposed to take part but two did not because one guy forgot his shoes. Am I getting anything wrong yet? So where the hell is the story? How were the two supposed 'additions' replacing anyone if they were all supposed to march? Sounds like one guy forgot his shoes so he and another didn't march out on the field, and that was it. Are the color guards set teams or do they adjust for the situation? Is it even a big deal to be on the color guard there? At my school it sure as hell wasn't.
If they were supposed to add diversity to the team it is not like they did a great job anyways, a white gal and a 'slightly more tanned guy'?
Seriously, all the righteous indignation is pretty funny. I can list, like many others here, the occasional gal and minority who got some special breaks in the military. I can also name a few ass-kissers, Admiral/General's kids and just plain assholes who got breaks too. They may not be as 'visible' but they account for a lot more than the occasional woman/minority that gets through because of who they are. Either way, the vast majority of time the Navy has a way of eventually 'fixing' those who slip through the cracks for one reason or another, often through self-selection.
One more thing, did anyone forget the point of an honor guard? While they represent the country first and foremost they are representing the institution/organization they come from too. If they are supposed to represent the USNA what the hell is wrong with trying to make sure they represent the student body? It's not like it happens elsewhere in the military without anyone raising hackles. The Marine Silent Drill Team, the 3rd Infantry 'Old Guard' at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and every other drill team I can think of has strict physical appearance requirements, height is a big one that comes to mind. Ever notice they all 'look' the part? That is not by accident. So where is the protests from all the short 'Napoleons' in the Marines who will never get a chance twirl a rifle at a basketball game halftime show? Gimme a break people......
Great points by Flash, and I am 100% against affirmative action/quotas or the like....
But, it's important to point out too that there are significant orders on creating environments to EO...and it may seem like PC BS, but it's the "easy" way out and I think that many commanders enjoy diversity as a "strength in numbers" way to create the environment as they are instructed to do.
Interesting arguement presented by a War College Paper (if you have the time/interest)
I think so. CDR Salamander makes it sound more like:
Two guys who are white and "regulars" on the honor guard were told last minute that, well, they would not be marching at the WS because their spots were being given to 2 more racially diverse folks.
One of the diverse replacements forgot his shoes and his spot was given to one of the original, white selectees at the last minute.
Sounds like the 8 man colorguard story is a cover. What would they have, 2 riflemen per side? (EDIT: They probably send 8 all the time, so they have backups just in case someone gets german measles the night before, or forgets a uniform item. They're just spinning and back-pedalling.)
I am not that conspiratorial, and I think CDR Salamander relies too much on rumor and innuendo far too often.
As for using all eight, maybe they wanted to carry 6 flags? I have seen it color guards of all size. Don't know for sure, I am not a USNA color guard type.
But all those 8 man teams (I'm excluding the 6 man one from WP) are mixed-service and carrying all the flags (presumably) in order to cover all their services. All the pictures of the USNA guard I can find on Google images have them carrying National Ensign, Navy, USMC, and Brigade flags only, so at best, it'd be a new arrangement to carry Army and AF flags, too. Not impossible, but groups that practice to look good all the time don't usually change their repertoire last minute, especially after 150+ years.
I saw those too, but they were all at the Naval Academy where those flags would be standard. Possibly there is a different one outside USNA/Navy events. But maybe not, but maybe it is just too challenging for middies to handle adding an extra two to the color guard. I guess that finally settles the eternal Army-Navy question of who is better, since West Point apparently can handle different sized color guards for different events:
Five-member color guard....
OMG.....Six!!!!!
And 150+ years?! Seriously, you are really stretching it with that one........because we all know that the color guard has been the one constant.........
N1 Admiral about blew me away (in Pentagon indoc) when he said that the Officer corps needs to reflect the population of college graduates from the nation...
As far as I can remember, the ass end of the boat doesn't care if you squat or stand, or where your 8th generation ago grandfather came from... get the F*** over it. My blood boils.........
IGNORAMIC.
As far as I can remember, the ass end of the boat doesn't care if you squat or stand, or where your 8th generation ago grandfather came from... get the F*** over it. My blood boils.........
IGNORAMIC.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
In my 4 years at USNA, I never saw anything other than 6. If you look carefully at the image you provided of West Point with a 6 man color guard - you'll see they are carrying two West Point flags. And our color guard (who included my roommate) did events outside of USNA. It was always the same, US Flag, US Navy Flag, USMC Flag, and Brigade Flag + 2 riflemen.
The Navy Times has dug beyond the blog and did a little research - Press release from USNA said six would be in the color guard, and listed them by name. They give an excuse for that. It seems to be backpedaling to me.
Oh, and I think that you have solved the eternal debate - Navy is clearly better because of uniformity. Something that's valued in the military.
The Navy Times has dug beyond the blog and did a little research - Press release from USNA said six would be in the color guard, and listed them by name. They give an excuse for that. It seems to be backpedaling to me.
Oh, and I think that you have solved the eternal debate - Navy is clearly better because of uniformity. Something that's valued in the military.
I did USNA Color Guard for 1 year carrying the National Ensign. That was 17-18 years ago, though, so things have likely changed. At the time, the Color Guard was made up of volunteers from the Color Company. We did everything on and off the Yard as a 6-man team. Based on my experience, I don't think it would be hard at all to plus up to 8 with as little as a few days of practice. Especially when you are talking about a straight march-on and a wheel-turn or two.
As for the diversity issue, poorly played by USNA leadership, but over-dramatized by Salamander. No matter how you slice it, the optics are something to consider for something this big. And it's not a "look how great the Navy is at diversity" thing. I always think about the young man or young women, maybe 10 to 12 years of age, who sees something out of the blue one day, like the USNA Color Guard at the World Series, and suddenly gets a spark of the possible to better themselves. Notice I didn't say race or gender. All young men and women, regardless of race, deserve to dream. So, as a white male (which I am), if I have to step aside briefly during a high vis event so the right mix of team can deliver that spark to a broader audience for the greater good then so be it. I would, however, call major foul if we were talking about screening or promotion decisions based on diversity. I've been in a number of boards and have seen nothing of the sort.
Still, poorly played by USNA making changes at the last minute and putting the 4 mids affected in a very precarious position with each other.
As for the diversity issue, poorly played by USNA leadership, but over-dramatized by Salamander. No matter how you slice it, the optics are something to consider for something this big. And it's not a "look how great the Navy is at diversity" thing. I always think about the young man or young women, maybe 10 to 12 years of age, who sees something out of the blue one day, like the USNA Color Guard at the World Series, and suddenly gets a spark of the possible to better themselves. Notice I didn't say race or gender. All young men and women, regardless of race, deserve to dream. So, as a white male (which I am), if I have to step aside briefly during a high vis event so the right mix of team can deliver that spark to a broader audience for the greater good then so be it. I would, however, call major foul if we were talking about screening or promotion decisions based on diversity. I've been in a number of boards and have seen nothing of the sort.
Still, poorly played by USNA making changes at the last minute and putting the 4 mids affected in a very precarious position with each other.
Clux4
Banned
Just echoing what Flash said. This stuff is real....
Has anyone here sat on a promotion board or at assignment branch? Talk about people who are groomed from the first day they step foot in the military. These people always get selected for the top schools and they always seem to get the nice orders. Give me a break people.....
In the case of the Marine Corps, diversity especially among the officer ranks is a big problem. Congress is asking questions and CMC has no answer.
I have said it this on AW but I will say it again. The USNA and all the other service academies are not by themselves a right of passage. They are just one of the many accession sources that we have. So, what is wrong in trying to have a demographic within these institutions that reflect the cross-section of the country? Tax-payers fund the school; tax-payers should have a representation.
Has anyone here sat on a promotion board or at assignment branch? Talk about people who are groomed from the first day they step foot in the military. These people always get selected for the top schools and they always seem to get the nice orders. Give me a break people.....
In the case of the Marine Corps, diversity especially among the officer ranks is a big problem. Congress is asking questions and CMC has no answer.
I have said it this on AW but I will say it again. The USNA and all the other service academies are not by themselves a right of passage. They are just one of the many accession sources that we have. So, what is wrong in trying to have a demographic within these institutions that reflect the cross-section of the country? Tax-payers fund the school; tax-payers should have a representation.
Prisons are tax-payer funded as well... should we start locking up more Asian-Americans?
Clux4
Banned
What the fuck is your point?