You answered another question I had mind regarding Airborne school (I didn't know scuba school was also an option for midshipmen) and the academy. It appears that it's harder to get NSW from the academy (or probably any other commissioning source) than aviation. Conversely, is SWO generally considered the least attractive/competitive option (no offense at all mean to SWO)?
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USNA Curriculum
- Thread starter Charles Edward
- Start date
RadicalDude
Social Justice Warlord
I'd say the hardest billet to get is Medical Corps. I think we had like three guys from my class get it; one was a classmate in my company and he was a prior FMF corpsman. The MC is not under any commitment to select any guys from USNA - though they almost always do - so you have to really sell yourself. Since USNA doesn't have pre-med, gouge was to major in chem and knock it out of the park if you wanted to go for it.
Billet numbers ebb and flow with budgets and administration. I was at USNA during the Clinton years, and Navy Pilot billet numbers literally doubled between my plebe and firstie years. Very generally speaking, for an average recent grad class, about as many Academy mids go SWO as Navy Air (pilot+NFO) and if you want either of those and are physically qualified, you'll probably get it. If you're running below a 2.0 you may not graduate; it's usually the 2nd Class physical that knocks guys out of running for aviation, not grades. As I recall, the anchor man (last in the class) in my class got Navy Pilot.
If you want Nuke (SWO-N or Subs) you have to interview with Director of Naval Reactors, and they look closely at your grades, as power school is very tough academically, and they want to see that you've performed well in engineering/science classes.
The Marines vett Mids via the opinions of Marines assigned to USNA and summer programs at Quantico. As with NSW, they want to see if you're a good fit for the community.
Policy when I graduated was that you would be comissioned in a URL community if physcially qualified. You could commission RL (Supply, etc) only if you were NPQed for some reason. Not sure if that's still the case.
A ton of good info. Thanks. I assume Medical Corps is most competitive because the Navy is paying for medical school.
At what point during the academy career does a midshipman needs to choose if he/she wants to go Marines or any other community for that matter?
Finally, is EOD just as competitive as SEAL?
You fill out your dream sheet at the end of 2/c year (I think that's still the case) and you interview with a group of officers, at least one of whom will be from your first choice community. Service assignment now is in November of your firstie year - it was in Feb when I was a mid; November makes more sense. Though if anyone asked me, I'd make service assignment at the end of 2/c year and have the summer and 1/c year focused professionally on your assgined branch. Nobody asked me, though.
So that's when you actually write down your choice. Really, though, if you want anything other than SWO, you need to lay the groundwork earlier. SEALs/EOD...there are always a lot more guys (I think NSW is open to women starting this year) who are interested and qualified and competitive than there are billets, and the endorsement of the Team guys at USNA carries the most weight. Their endorsement comes from knowing you and seeing you perform at jump/dive/Mini-BUD/S selection and other NSW-oriented events. Marines expect you to be involved with Marine-related extra-curriculars (Semper Fi Society, etc) and you're required to do Leatherneck and MAGTF summer cruise - it's all essentially auditioning to be a Marine. Aviators need to take the ASTB and do well. Nukes have a minimum GPA.
If you're interested, here's the Supe's instruction on service assignment process, including the pre-reqs for communities that have them.
And to be clear, once you're at the Academy, Midshipmen very quickly realize what opportunities exist for them to prove their worth to said communities. Even the SWO's have a YP team, which is kind of cool to go up to Philly, New York, or Norfolk for a weekend. I was a varsity athlete for 2 years, then did intramurals and became the President of the Economics Honor Society, so I remained involved outside of schoolwork. I also crushed every PFA (I think they were called PRT's back then) and that counted more than I thought it would (when it came time to select your flight school start date, they had a slightly different ranking than our class ranking, with the ASTB now factored in and PRTs taking a higher precedence in the class ranking if I recall). I took the Professional Development classes seriously, and made sure I was on good terms with my instructors there just in case they had any say. I asked relevant and intelligent questions to them about their profession. I think the lowest pilot in my class year was in the 700's out of about 1000 people in my graduating class (I say this because he was in my company!).
The Supe's instruction specifies a commitment of four years after designation as a SEAL. But, does one get designated a SEAL after completing 6 months of BUD/S? I understand there are many follow on schools, but at what point does the designation come in and therefore the clock on the service commitment start ticking?
For that matter, does it typically take about a year to get wings after flight training commences (for jets , perhaps a bit more than a year)?
For that matter, does it typically take about a year to get wings after flight training commences (for jets , perhaps a bit more than a year)?
RadicalDude
Social Justice Warlord
You owe, I believe, 5 years minimum post commissioning. Winging adds to that commitment, currently 6 years for NFOs, 8 for pilots. I can't remember anymore, but I believe your winging commitment starts at date of winging. So altogether anywhere from 7-10 years of commitment post graduation for aviation. Not sure for SPECWAR. I think it's just the standard 5.
Yes, it starts after winging.
Charles Edward
Member
[QUOdocument "RadicalDude, post: 867645, member: 21488"]You owe, I believe, 5 years minimum post commissioning. Winging adds to that commitment, currently 6 years for NFOs, 8 for pilots. I can't remember anymore, but I believe your winging commitment starts at date of winging. So altogether anywhere from 7-10 years of commitment post graduation for aviation. Not sure for SPECWAR. I think it's just the standard 5.[/QUOTE]
The document from the supe states that the SEAL commitment is 4 years from designation. But, how long does it typically take to get that trident after USNA graduation?
The document from the supe states that the SEAL commitment is 4 years from designation. But, how long does it typically take to get that trident after USNA graduation?
RadicalDude
Social Justice Warlord
BUD/S is six months. So however long it takes you to get to San Diego and start BUD/S, plus six months.
BUD/S =/= being designated. They still have to go through SQT before earning their Trident. The Google Machine/navy.mil say that's another 26 weeks.
According to Wikipedia (not sure if that is the most trustworthy source. Hence, my questions here), a prospective SEAL must first attend 8 weeks of Naval Special Warfare Preparatory School in Great Lakes, Illinois (it's not clear from the entry if this prep school is applicable to officers/usna grads), then 24 weeks of BUD/S, and the another 26 weeks of SQT before being awarded the Trident (and presumably designated a SEAL). So, that's about a year and half after USNA graduation. Assuming there is a break between graduation and the commencement of training, it works out to more than a 5 year commitment from commissioning.