Usna Or Nrotc?

[HerrLURP]

I read D-Lux's post, and while calling you a D-bag may have been over the top, he's was trying to drive home the point that an Ensign is an Ensign. Period.

You sir are a D-bag, and a fu**tard.

That may have been over the top (or not,) but I'm just trying to drive home a point so I guess it's OK. Period. In the meantime, nobody call me out on it because afterall, I'm simply making a point and i dnot rellay nkow hwo to writwe wlel.

See how biased that is? I know you love ROTC...bravo. I didn't criticize you for standing up for ROTC, so don't criticize others for standing up for the Academies. It's awfully convenient to tell others to "fix your attitude" instead of confronting the real issues and addressing the points that have been made.

And the point IS: (drum roll) Although you get the same commission through the various commissioning sources, there are countless factors that play into what separates an Academy from University ROTC. To simply use the end-state as a crux for one over the other is both naive and ill-advised. For the high school student considering which route to go, he needs to consider more than just the commission...he needs to consider which is a better match for him, which offers the most opportunities for growth and advancement, which will offer classmates that he can be proud to call classmates, etc. etc. This issue is extremely complicated, and it's a joke to simply say, "duh drink beer, have woman, go ROTC and get the same commission." That ignores all the real issues and is no help to anybody. And it really gets annoying when multiple ROTC kids jump in to repeat the SAME EXACT spiel over and over again: beer, women, freedom. Tell me something we don't know. Now let's go into what advantages the Academies have to offer, without accusing others of having an attitude problem. Note the title of the thread: USNA or ROTC...NOT "What happens once you graduate from USNA or ROTC?"

 

[Thisguy]

You're missing my point. I'm not defending ROTC. I'm not criticizing you for standing up for the academy. I'm criticizing the way you put others down because they chose the ROTC route and how "nothing compares to the Academy." If you backtrack in this thread, you'll see a lot of people giving the pros and cons of both sources, and emphasizing that for each individual, one may be better than the other. Then you come out of left field and tell Nozeman he's full of crap. You provoked all this, which is how this thread got way off topic.

 

[HerrLURP]

Well I apologize for jumping on Nozeman. That was uncalled for. However, it doesn't take a blind man to see that the Academy is very underrepresented on this board, and this thread in particular made me feel that we were being ganged up on.

I do admit I take it personally when people use the, "it's the same commission," line, mainly because such a statement ignores the day-to-day operations and all the other extraneous stuff that is involved in the development of a future officer. If the commission was all that matters, then hell yeah, the Academies would be a waste of money and we should close them all down and everyone could party and meet hot girls at college. But it's not that simple.

But in the end we're all on the same side so let's just f*** it and drive on.

 

[NozeMan]

I know an excellent note to end this one......college football!

If nothing else that ONE THING WE HAVE IN COMMON. And since I go to Purdue, and we have some academy guys here, we can discuss the merry topic of BEATING NOTRE DAME. Navy: its GOTTA happen one of these days! It seems like the Navy-ND game gets closer and closer every year. I was at that game about 4 years ago, and ND won on a crappy ball spot (thank you, NBC....). Weren't the past 2 years pretty close as well? If we have ANY sign of playing Defense this year, we should handle them pretty well.

Penn State....game in October?

I figured the only healthy trash talk could be about football!

Nozeman

 

[nittany03]

I was at Navy/Notre Dame in 1999 during my USNA campus visit. What an ugly spectacle that was. The Mids are way overdue. And let's face it. If ND joins the Big Ten they'll all have Ph.Ds by the time they get done getting taken to school. It'd be worth it though; I grew up rooting against Pitt and ND.

Purdue at home? BRING IT! Even Drew Brees couldn't win in Happy Valley.

WE ARE . . .

 

[Thisguy]

...PENN STATE

Ha, now we're going to get some ND fans on here saying "a win is a win"

ND will never join a conference, because their ego is way too big, and they better start winning more ballgames or I hear the Notre Dame Broadcasting Company (NBC) won't re-up the contract.

 

[HerrLURP]

The Academies are very beautiful places...I especially love West Point and Colorado Springs. Charles Dickens once said that West Point is the most beautiful place in the world, and you really have to see for yourself to really understand what he meant. Of course if you actually go there you're too pissed off to enjoy the view

 

[rjack14]

we lost to ND last year as time ran out with them making a field goal. Course we beat Air Force though, and yet we lost to Rutgers. I dunno what it is with our team. Still rebuilding I guess. For all you lacrosse fans or future players for the Academy, we beat #1 Maryland yesterday 9-6.
And a good qoute from Ward Carrol (an alumni of the Academy who now writes the Punk series of novels on a F-14 aviator) "The only thing that the Academy teaches you is how to survive the Academy."

 

[viv]

I haven't posted on AirWarriors in a while (busy with college stuff), but I really feel the need to post here on this topic.

Last year, my senior year of high school, my first choice school was the Academy. I thought I had it all (1400, 3.9, varsity xc/track, blah blah blah). I did not get accepted, but my efforts did earn me a 4 yr scholarship for Georgia Tech NROTC. The day after I got my rejection letter from USNA I started my application for class of 2008. A couple weeks ago, I got an offer of appointment to the Academy's class of 2008, and I accepted the offer last week. It's going to suck being a 4/C again, but it's all good.

It was the toughest decision in my life. I truly enjoyed the ROTC and college experience. I even became a brother in the Delta Chi fraternity (and despite what people say, fraternities are not all about drinking and "buying your friends"). It's going to suck to leave, but ultimately I've decided that I want to challenge myself in ways that only a service academy can. I know what I'm giving up by not doing college for four years, and I've determined that the Academy will be better for me. For any of you that are reapplying to the Academy, my biggest piece of advice is to experience college. You really might decide that you don't want to go to the academy; I was on the verge of not accepting my appointment.

I don't like when people imply that NROTC is any lesser of a training program than USNA. One thing I learned from doing ROTC and visiting USNA is that becoming a good officer is all about how self-determined you are. There are crappy midshipmen in NROTC, and trust me, there are plenty of crappy midshipmen at the Academy. There are also plenty of awesome midshipmen in both routes (like snizo). It's all about YOU.

And that's all I have to say.

 

[HerrLURP]

How would you know about the "plenty of crappy midshipmen" at USNA if you don't go here?

You'll soon find that USNA is far less forgiving towards, "low standards" than NROTC and the bar will be set much higher in every possible aspect of your life. It'll be a kick in the balls if you don't adapt, and most of those who fail to live up to standard find themselves on their way home.

 

[usunkmybship]

There are always going to be bad apples no matter where you go. I don't think was was trying to diss the people at the academy. Just the academy will go to great lengths to strive for the perfect candidates, background checks and all, but not all of them are going to be perfect. And not all of them go in for the right reasons, like for personal gain, to hope to win medals someday, whatever. Then there are always the loud ignorant jerks and those who don't follow teamwork.
Probably not plenty of them though, hopefully.

 

[phrogdriver]

Let's take a rest for a minute and put the magic perspective glasses on for a second. I'm not going to open the "all commissions are the same" can again. However, as soon as you check in to your first fleet unit, arguing over whether the academy or NROTC is better is going to seem like the most childish thing imaginable. It's like being in college and getting pissed over who got picked for senior homecoming court. There are people who dwell on such things. They're called a@#holes.

To continue the analogy, occasionally you will meet the high school Homecoming king sitting on his fat ass on a barstool in your hometown, where he still works at some deadend job. And there are former ROTC btn commanders and USNA honor grads who couldn't lead a platoon of fleet Marines accross the street. The point being that some people get better starts. Whether the better start in this case is ROTC or USNA doesn't matter. The difference comes in how you handle the real world.

Starting with same freshman "X," I'm not convinced either system will make a better officer. You can be Michelangelo, but if you don't have enough paint, the chapel ain't gettin' done. USNA is more selective than NROTC. Hooray. Have a cookie. However, there are civilian schools (with NROTC) that are harder to get into than Navy, so get over yourself.

That's enough for now. I'm having another beer and watching the rest of Matrix Revolutions, which this ROTC grad doesn't understand, so hopefully alcohol will help.

 

[H20man]

lol Revolutions, i still havent gotten around to that one yet.

But like Viv and phrog said, its what you make of it, not the institutions. They (plural) set the stage, you must act it out.