USNA vs ROTC vs OCS

[DanMa1156]

Good answer, thanks a lot. I've missed the point that ROTC are not independent and their parental colleges may went pacifistic

And ultimately, ROTC has a committment of a few hours a week. If USNA/USMA/USAFA/USCGA/USMMA really wanted to, they can adjust their days to reflect the requirements of their services. While at USNA, I had access to ship simulators, small ships to con/OOD, sailboats, obstacle courses, endurance courses, Marine Corps Martial Arts courses, navigation charts, etc. USNA uses all of them to some degree, but I imagine it wouldn't be hard to cut out electives in degrees and add in more navigation or physical fitness courses or whatever else it needs for its graduates in upcoming years. Cases in point: when I first showed up to USNA, they started offering Arabic and Chinese as majors; and recently USNA just opened up a new cyber center and formalized its degree programs within that. They see that's part of the future of warfare and are ensuring they have some graduates able to fill those roles, which ultimately cannot be guaranteed from ROTC or OCS.

 

[HAL Pilot]

An academy grad probably has more knowledge or exposure about other parts of the Navy than a non academy guy but as a JO that is extra, non-critical even useless knowledge. By the time a non academy grad needs that knowledge, he will have learned it.

 

[DanMa1156]

I'll also add that none of the Academies are really at capacity. If needed, they could scale up to graduate larger class sizes as well.

 

[Pags]

And ultimately, ROTC has a committment of a few hours a week. If USNA/USMA/USAFA/USCGA/USMMA really wanted to, they can adjust their days to reflect the requirements of their services. While at USNA, I had access to ship simulators, small ships to con/OOD, sailboats, obstacle courses, endurance courses, Marine Corps Martial Arts courses, navigation charts, etc. USNA uses all of them to some degree, but I imagine it wouldn't be hard to cut out electives in degrees and add in more navigation or physical fitness courses or whatever else it needs for its graduates in upcoming years. Cases in point: when I first showed up to USNA, they started offering Arabic and Chinese as majors; and recently USNA just opened up a new cyber center and formalized its degree programs within that. They see that's part of the future of warfare and are ensuring they have some graduates able to fill those roles, which ultimately cannot be guaranteed from ROTC or OCS.

It's kind of hard to truly measure the level of commitment between USNA and ROTC. Things that would be considered outside the scope of ROTC are considered within scope and part of the USNA experience. For instance, is sailing part of officer development? What about glee club? If so, then NROTC offers these same opportunities to NROTC MIDN, just not in uniform.

I never noticed a huge delta between actual performance between the commissioning sources. Sure the USNA guys spent more time in fake uniforms and running o-courses while I was sleeping in and drinking beer (just kidding, I was not sleeping doing engineering coursework and running platoon PT, platoon marching, etc).

 

[Gatordev]

For instance, is sailing part of officer development?

Technically sailing is part of ROTC, since you are (or at least were) required to get your Skipper B qual. CNET (or whatever it's called now) actually had a budget to purchase Lasers for units.

 

[Pags]

Technically sailing is part of ROTC, since you are (or at least were) required to get your Skipper B qual. CNET (or whatever it's called now) actually had a budget to purchase Lasers for units.

Yeah, I know; I was the SailO for my ROTC unit. So probably not the best example but I meant to say something along the lines of sailing opportunities beyond the mandatory Skipper B qual. Ie, is sailing a big USNA offshore boat additional officer development opportunities or is it just a club sport that happens to only include MIDN? USNA would obviously say that everything they offer on their campus is officer development. But is the USNA Chess Club any more officer development than the Big State School Chess Club?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ie, is sailing a big USNA offshore boat additional officer development opportunities

BTW, no true sailing in Russian Naval Colleges but there is rowing course instead, with resulting competition between classes, and it is compulsory. Nothing like Olympic boats, just rough wooden whalers though sometimes we got it sailing but only to have some rest between rowing lags. It was definitely not for maritime skills but for personal endurance training, since even bloody bubbled on the palms didn't free anyone from rowing till the end of a route.

 

[VMO4]

Technically sailing is part of ROTC, since you are (or at least were) required to get your Skipper B qual. CNET (or whatever it's called now) actually had a budget to purchase Lasers for units.

There is a "qual" you can get in a laser,? OMG, I could race a laser around a course when I was about 11, this is the kinda thing that gets us Marines to make fun of the Navy.

 

[Pags]

There is a "qual" you can get in a laser,? OMG, I could race a laser around a course when I was about 11, this is the kinda thing that gets us Marines to make fun of the Navy.

Yep. And it used to be to same qual that base MWR recognized so you could show up with your little card at any base and rent a sailboat.

The actual sailing qual took a few days to get to Skipper B. There was a class, some dry land hands on, some boxes that needed to be checked on the water, and a test. For most MIDN it was a weekend of sailing and then never thinking about it again. But we also had an ROTC sailing team and we'd travel to regattas around the SE, hang out with MIDN from other schools, get out of town, party, stay at @squorch2's childhood home.

It gave me a decent enough foundation to be able to be a useful hand on larger boats (15+kts running under the spinnaker?) when I went to NPS.

 

[VMO4]

Yep. And it used to be to same qual that base MWR recognized so you could show up with your little card at any base and rent a sailboat.

The actual sailing qual took a few days to get to Skipper B. There was a class, some dry land hands on, some boxes that needed to be checked on the water, and a test. For most MIDN it was a weekend of sailing and then never thinking about it again. But we also had an ROTC sailing team and we'd travel to regattas around the SE, hang out with MIDN from other schools, get out of town, party, stay at @squorch2's childhood home.

It gave me a decent enough foundation to be able to be a useful hand on larger boats (15+kts running under the spinnaker?) when I went to NPS.

Now checking out a sailboat around the country is something I can get behind. Used to race a bunch in lasers and later J boats, you would be surprised how much money it takes to race in something where the fuel is still free.

 

[Gatordev]

What Pags said. Marines were exempt. And we'd go to sail regattas as well. There was one at NAS Jax that would correspond with the bi-annual airshow there, so you could flip the boat over and sit on the dagger board while watching the Blues hit their south checkpoint right on top of you.

 

[squorch2]

My lone jax regatta experience was forgetting how to tack, colliding with the committee boat at the start, and capsizing + losing my daggerboard & mast while running downwind.

still loved it

 

[jmcquate]

Spent a weekend in Annapolis back in 2012 to help getting the USNA yacht "Tomcat" ready to be trailered to Cleveland. I think she was a Farr 53. Nice little fleet they have.

 

[Pags]

Spent a weekend in Annapolis back in 2012 to help getting the USNA yacht "Tomcat" ready to be trailered to Cleveland. I think she was a Farr 53. Nice little fleet they have.

I wish I could remember what type of boat I used to crew on in Monterey. I recall it was something like 1 of 3 in the world and it was very high speed.

 

[jmcquate]

I wish I could remember what type of boat I used to crew on in Monterey. I recall it was something like 1 of 3 in the world and it was very high speed.

Do you remember her name Pags?