USS Fitzgerald collision in C7F

[BigRed389]

I saw lots of "discussion" as to whether or not a broken piece of equipment affecteded mission readiness and that end of that discussion was usually determined by the Captain's call on whether or not to release the CASREP. The fact that there was discussion was surprising to Aviators. Our MESM says, "if X is broken then you're partial or non mission capable" in black and white. MESM is promulgated by the TYCOM. Even with better up vs down guidance there are still plenty of ways to fudge the numbers on the aviation side but the system seems, to me at least, to be more transpatand rigorous.

I don’t disagree. Ships are left to figure out the impact of a particular broken piece of gear on a mission area on their own.

It’s usually still pretty clear (broken air radar = no AAW), but where it gets tricky is when you get to degradation of equipment rather than something being completely down.

 

[Pags]

What’s a kettlebell?

Do you even lift bro?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Do you even lift bro?

Oh as in weights. Got it - duh.

 

[nittany03]

Pics & memes

If you go out to lunch with a vegan pilot who does Crossfit . . . what do they talk about the whole time?

 

[ea6bflyr]

Not sure this is a minor point--the lack of "ownership" over these ships was a major point that VADM Aucoin made in his objection to Big Navy's handling of the incident. C7F was held responsible for ships over which C3F held authority.

? FITZ & MCCAIN were/are both FDNF ships owned by C7F & DESRON 15. C3F had nothing to do with this.

 

[ea6bflyr]

And of course there are shoes commenting on how we aviators can’t judge, because we have the occasional Class A. I’m reminded why I usually stay away from Sal’s comment section.

One positive thing will come from all of this: A surface HAZREP type reporting system. Lets hope the SWOs have truth in reporting to prevent others from incurring the same.

 

[Griz882]

If you go out to lunch with a vegan pilot who does Crossfit . . . what do they talk about the whole time?

You're talking about a total unicorn there buddy, total unicorn.

 

[Griz882]

View attachment 20730

Investigator: "So, why didn't you respond to the surface search radar warnings?"

Sailor: The bells sir, the freakin' kettle bells were always ringing!"

 

[IRfly]

? FITZ & MCCAIN were/are both FDNF ships owned by C7F & DESRON 15. C3F had nothing to do with this.

You're right, my mistake. It was the ATG...

"Afloat Training Group (ATG) Western Pacific, responsible for the training and certification of FDNF surface ships based in Japan, was not under C7F command, but instead reported directly to Commander, Naval Surface Force Pacific (CNSP)."

The LAKE CHAMPLAIN was the C3F ship that collided in the C7F AOR.

 

[BigRed389]

You're right, my mistake. It was the ATG...

"Afloat Training Group (ATG) Western Pacific, responsible for the training and certification of FDNF surface ships based in Japan, was not under C7F command, but instead reported directly to Commander, Naval Surface Force Pacific (CNSP)."

The LAKE CHAMPLAIN was the C3F ship that collided in the C7F AOR.

Still a red herring.

ATG provides standardized training packages and teams.
ISIC, CDS 15 in this case under C7F CoC has oversight and final decision on ATG conducted training and certification recommendations.

 

[IRfly]

Still a red herring.

ATG provides standardized training packages and teams.
ISIC, CDS 15 in this case under C7F CoC has oversight and final decision on ATG conducted training and certification recommendations.

Ok.

 

[egiv]

Maybe not ISIC inspections, but ISIC presence is definitely an "opportunity" for everybody to turn to and make things run right. Having said that, that also requires a competent ISIC. Plenty of stories of fucked up ISIC's who show up and proceed to blast good practices while reinforcing outdated/bad ones as well.

I would argue that, if anything, the admin that DESRON buries DDGs in to provide updates, prepare for inspections, random taskers, etc. doesn't leave time to get truly proficient in your job and watch station, especially when added on top of the daily avalanche of personnel, training, and maintenance admin. On my current DDG last year, in the rush of post-Fitz/McCain lessons learned, our DESRON insisted on landing a helo during a scheduled UNREP so that a couple staff members could talk to the crew about how to operate safely. The irony was apparently lost on them.

 

[BigRed389]

I would argue that, if anything, the admin that DESRON buries DDGs in to provide updates, prepare for inspections, random taskers, etc. doesn't leave time to get truly proficient in your job and watch station, especially when added on top of the daily avalanche of personnel, training, and maintenance admin. On my current DDG last year, in the rush of post-Fitz/McCain lessons learned, our DESRON insisted on landing a helo during a scheduled UNREP so that a couple staff members could talk to the crew about how to operate safely. The irony was apparently lost on them.

Like I said...it requires a competent ISIC. Not all are.

And in fairness, especially the CONUS ones, they’re probably not really manned properly to do their job either.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Just published

The Inside Story of an American Warship Doomed by Its Own Navy

Investigation finds officials ignored warnings for years before one of the deadliest crashes in decades.

features.propublica.org

 

[Griz882]

Just published

The Inside Story of an American Warship Doomed by Its Own Navy

Investigation finds officials ignored warnings for years before one of the deadliest crashes in decades.

features.propublica.org

Interesting.