VAQ Pilot Shore Tours vs VFA Pilot Shore Tours

[JaegerThe117]

How do shore tours for pilots in the VAQ and VFA community differ, aside from obvious differences in weapons schools, FRS's, etc. Are there any opportunities exclusive to one or the other, or that are more likely for one over another?

 

[JTS11]

Honestly, I would have loved to have done that tour. Or the Spanish AF one. It's bizarre that those tours are considered to be "less than" by our PERS. They send us their best. Literally every RAF or (most) USAF and all USMC officers I've experienced in their own PEPs have been well above average. We don't send our worst, by any means, but we send guys with the expectation that they aren't getting "credit" for it

Yeah, we send good dudes/gals on these tours. You may even get to meet the queen! (was in a MEU squadron with this dude for a bit)

Queen Elizabeth honors U.S. Marine helicopter pilot

www.stripes.com

 

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah, we send good dudes/gals on these tours. You may even get to meet the queen! (was in a MEU squadron with this dude for a bit)

View attachment 41359

Queen Elizabeth honors U.S. Marine helicopter pilot

www.stripes.com

One of your baddest asses went to F-15's a few years before Desert Storm. Was credited with kills leading an 8 ship over Iraq on night 2, 17 jan 91. Was an Eagle flight lead (obviously) by that point, and a former NFWS grad before. He wasn't just some dude we filled a billet with. What a stone cold bad ass motherfucker

 

[Brett327]

Honestly, I would have loved to have done that tour. Or the Spanish AF one. It's bizarre that those tours are considered to be "less than" by our PERS. They send us their best. Literally every RAF or (most) USAF and all USMC officers I've experienced in their own PEPs have been well above average. We don't send our worst, by any means, but we send guys with the expectation that they aren't getting "credit" for it

It's hard to get credit with NOB time. They could probably find a good way to change that.

 

[cfam]

It's hard to get credit with NOB time. They could probably find a good way to change that.

I know it was a different time, but Admiral Paparo did an F-15 tour back in the day. I wonder if it was NOB time back then.

I’d also be curious to see how the USAF does it. I’ve seen their exchange pilots go right back on their version of the golden path with no ill effects. The current exchange pilot to Morocco has actually done back to back exchange tours (was in Belgium before this tour). Not a bad gig if you can get it.

 

[Brett327]

I know it was a different time, but Admiral Paparo did an F-15 tour back in the day. I wonder if it was NOB time back then.

I’d also be curious to see how the USAF does it. I’ve seen their exchange pilots go right back on their version of the golden path with no ill effects. The current exchange pilot to Morocco has actually done back to back exchange tours (was in Belgium before this tour). Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Coincidentally, I briefed him and the Governor this morning. What a great and brilliant dude.

Anyhow, an NOB tour isn't necessarily a career killer, but it can be a hurdle for a selection board to get past. I myself had an NOB first shore tour... overcoming that GED. Things didn't turn out too bad, IMO.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I know it was a different time, but Admiral Paparo did an F-15 tour back in the day. I wonder if it was NOB time back then.

I’d also be curious to see how the USAF does it. I’ve seen their exchange pilots go right back on their version of the golden path with no ill effects. The current exchange pilot to Morocco has actually done back to back exchange tours (was in Belgium before this tour). Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Is it truly a NOB, or just a 1/1 signed by potentially a pretty senior other service person that ultimately doesn't matter during a board? I don't think the difference matters, but it could if, like Brett said, we dealt with it differently. I think we are honestly already barely treading water and getting splashes in the lungs just trying to brief due course aviators during said boards though. We are just immune to it right now because of our incredible collective generation's t-notch of the moment.....

 

[JTS11]

Is it truly a NOB, or just a 1/1 signed by potentially a pretty senior other service person that ultimately doesn't matter during a board? I don't think the difference matters, but it could if, like Brett said, we dealt with it differently. I think we are honestly already barely treading water and getting splashes in the lungs just trying to brief due course aviators during said boards though. We are just immune to it right now because of our incredible collective generation's t-notch of the moment.....

I'm assuming NOB = 'Not observed' FITREP?

If so, I'll relay the story of when I administered an 0-5 command screening board. One aviator had a FITREP from his tour as the Marine WH mil aide that was written by POTUS. It was maxed out, and the verbiage in the comments section was (paraphrasing), "if X doesn't get command of an operational Y squadron, please have the Commandant come brief me."...
😁

 

[Gatordev]

that was written by POTUS. It was maxed out,

OMG, now POTUS's average will be too high!!!

In ~2018, the HSM community said they were changing the status of PEP to be a very competitive billet and sent a RAG IP to support PEP RAN. The individual was a good dude and community player, but he also was sitting at ~17 years TIS, so he got out after that tour.

After that, the Danes were supported by SELRES, the RSNF are supported by contractors (although those jobs are never fully manned) and the INN are currently supported by contractors. I haven't bothered to check my email in several weeks, so I haven't heard what the plan is for ROK.

I'd be curious if PEP continued to be advertised as career-enhancing in the HSM community, but it seems the sampling is just too low to actually know if it actually is career-enhancing.

 

[cfam]

Coincidentally, I briefed him and the Governor this morning. What a great and brilliant dude.

Anyhow, an NOB tour isn't necessarily a career killer, but it can be a hurdle for a selection board to get past. I myself had an NOB first shore tour... overcoming that GED. Things didn't turn out too bad, IMO.

Now that I think about it, I know of at least one Growler EWO who recently selected for command and did the RAAF exchange as his disassociated. I guess the messaging/timing worked out for him (understanding that the relationship with 6 Squadron/the RAAF is a bit unique).

PEP is definitely a niche thing, but from where I currently sit I’m a big fan. There may not be a value add to the NAE, but it’s really helpful to DOD for a variety of other reasons.

 

[Odominable]

I refreshed a dude at the FRS who spent the bulk of his DH time as the equivalent of the OpsO in the 160th flying AH-6s, including a combat deployment, and he was legitimately concerned about the O-5 board due to lack of observed USMC time. It worked out for him but it’s bananas that it was an issue in the first place.

 

[JTS11]

I refreshed a dude at the FRS who spent the bulk of his DH time as the equivalent of the OpsO in the 160th flying AH-6s, including a combat deployment, and it he was legitimately concerned about the O-5 board due to lack of observed USMC time. It worked out for him but it’s bananas that it was an issue in the first place.

I agree. At least when I was in, monitors would try to make sure that the timing worked out for an exchange tour. But, like you said, it would be bananas if it led to non-selection, bc we don't send turds to exchange tours like that.

 

[ChuckMK23]

OMG, now POTUS's average will be too high!!!

In ~2018, the HSM community said they were changing the status of PEP to be a very competitive billet and sent a RAG IP to support PEP RAN. The individual was a good dude and community player, but he also was sitting at ~17 years TIS, so he got out after that tour.

After that, the Danes were supported by SELRES, the RSNF are supported by contractors (although those jobs are never fully manned) and the INN are currently supported by contractors. I haven't bothered to check my email in several weeks, so I haven't heard what the plan is for ROK.

I'd be curious if PEP continued to be advertised as career-enhancing in the HSM community, but it seems the sampling is just too low to actually know if it actually is career-enhancing.

We have a PEP helo dude here on AW who made O-5 in Reserves on first look last cycle.. Clearly didn't hold him back!

 

[Swanee]

Honestly, I would have loved to have done that tour. Or the Spanish AF one. It's bizarre that those tours are considered to be "less than" by our PERS. They send us their best. Literally every RAF or (most) USAF and all USMC officers I've experienced in their own PEPs have been well above average. We don't send our worst, by any means, but we send guys with the expectation that they aren't getting "credit" for it

The ANG has picked up a few PEP tours, some at large and many with our assigned NATO partners. You've got to be good to get one, and going on one is as close to a guarantee for squadron and O-6 command as one can get.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Things didn't turn out too bad, IMO.

As for PEP tours, part of why I didn't take one was the NOB time. Glad I went the test route, but still- what a missed opportunity for the USN to make something amazing out of PEP tours, rather than it being a potentially career-limiting path.

It always seemed like the jobs I wanted to do and was qualified for came with the warning label "May be hazardous to your career!" I never understood that- maybe that's why I finally left AD.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Now that I think about it, I know of at least one Growler EWO who recently selected for command and did the RAAF exchange as his disassociated. I guess the messaging/timing worked out for him (understanding that the relationship with 6 Squadron/the RAAF is a bit unique)

I've always been under the impression that the RAAF EWO PEP billet is a pretty well curated "community job", and like you say, a bit unique as far as PEP goes.