Viet-Kilo...

[picklesuit]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519341,00.html

Cool to see these subs still in action... also cool to see someone else sticking it to the Chinese...

 

[Uncle Fester]

It's the trend of the future, boys. We can't be everywhere anymore, and everyone has their own agenda and enemies.

 

[Mumbles]

Man in black pajamas, Dude........worthy fuckin adversary. I just hope they remember to close the hatch before they go sinker, unlike the Iranians.

 

[PropAddict]

<<Inhales deeply>> Smells like. . .job security.

:icon_tong

 

[skidkid]

A seam we should have exploited 35+ years ago.

 

[Mumbles]

Fellas....
we want the Vietnamese navy to raise hell in the South China Sea. You see, historically, the Indochinese don't get along with the big bully neighbors north of them going back thousands of years. And then you have these pretty valuable little atolls in the South China Sea called the Spratlys and Paracels. You can figure it out from there. The Russians are whores and will sell the same system to neighbors that hate each other... We also left them a pretty good fucking base called Cam Rahn Bay which is almost on the same parallel as the contested islands.

 

[Fog]

If you want some good Summer reading, try these 2:

Red Star Rogue : True story from 1968 of a Russian Golf II sub that was taken over from within by a Spetsnaz team from the Kremlin which then tried to launch a nuke missile on Pearl Harbor w/ the goal of making the launch appear to come from a Chinese Golf I sub. The missile blew up on the sub, killing all 97 hands aboard;

Blind Man's Bluff : A documentary of US attack sub surveillance activities from the Korean Era till 1998. Great story of how we really out-classed the Russkies in technology, but American spies (Johnny Walker Red) helped keep the Soviets fairly close.

Both are great reads that will blow your mind. At the end, however, you get real sub-fatigue and become grateful for 1.5 hr cycles & real liberty every week or so.

 

[Mumbles]

Best USW Cowboys and Cossacks book according to Mumbles....

Fictional shoot out between a Scorpion class and an Alfa back in '68. Great read. Supposedly based on the Scorpion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Kill_The_Potemkin

 

[FlyinSpy]

Man in black pajamas, Dude.

Who's in pajamas, Walter?

 

[Flash]

The enmity between Vietnam and China has a long history, going back centuries. While the North Vietnamese and the PRC were allies in the Vietnam War it was more 'an enemy of my enemy is my friend' thing than real friendship. It didn't take them long to go at it after we left, the Chinese invaded Vietnam in response to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, a PRC ally, in 1977/78. The PRC promptly got it's ass kicked in the resultant 2-3 week 'Sino-Vietnamese War' in the spring of 1979.

The South Vietnamese even fought an actual naval battle with the PRC in 1974 over the still-disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. North Vietnam reiterated the Vietnamese claim on the islands in 1976.

Red Star Rogue : True story from 1968 of a Russian Golf II sub that was taken over from within by a Spetsnaz team from the Kremlin & which tried to launch a nuke missile on Pearl Harbor w/ the goal of making the launch appear to come from a Chinese Golf I sub. The missile blew up on the sub, killing all 97 hands aboard;

I don't buy that, too convenient a story for what was probably just another sub loss for the Russkies, they have had plenty. Especially when you consider that it carried pretty volatile liquid-fueled ballistic missiles.

 

[Fog]

Flash:
Buy the book & make your own judgement. You can get it on amazon.com for a few dollars. Ever hear of the Glomar Explorer, Senor Spook? They're all tied together. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[NavAir42]

I never thought I'd be rooting for Vietnam, but give 'em hell.

I don't buy the Red Star Rouge premise either. Just reading through some of the critical remarks of the book poke a ton of holes in the idea. I guess it's one of those cases of letting facts get in the way of the truth. I was kind of tipped off when one website selling the book billed it as a non-fiction novel. I thought they called that historical fiction.

 

[Junkball]

If you want some good Summer reading, try these 2:

Red Star Rogue : True story from 1968 of a Russian Golf II sub that was taken over from within by a Spetsnaz team from the Kremlin which then tried to launch a nuke missile on Pearl Harbor w/ the goal of making the launch appear to come from a Chinese Golf I sub. The missile blew up on the sub, killing all 97 hands aboard;

Blind Man's Bluff : A documentary of US attack sub surveillance activities from the Korean Era till 1998. Great story of how we really out-classed the Russkies in technology, but American spies (Johnny Walker Red) helped keep the Soviets fairly close.

Both are great reads that will blow your mind. At the end, however, you get real sub-fatigue and become grateful for 1.5 hr cycles & real liberty every week or so.

Blind Man's Bluff is a great book. I read it back when I was about 14 and remember it pretty vividly.

I don't really buy the RSR story, either. It seems to violate Occam's razor on a couple of levels. Sure, a bunch of spooks could have seized the sub and attempted to frame China (WTF? Wouldn't we assume Soviet action instead?), which was only prevented by a U.S.-designed failsafe device, resulting in a sinking within missile range of Pearl Harbor, not where the vessel actually sank, which was only kept secret by holding the entire crew of the Glomar explorer in the dark as to their location... if your tinfoil hat is tight enough.

 

[Flash]

Flash:
Buy the book & make your own judgement. You can get it on amazon.com for a few dollars. Ever hear of the Glomar Explorer, Senor Spook? They're all tied together. A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.

One fact that seems to have escaped the author, while the Chinese have had a Golf a while, did they have the missiles to go along with it back then? I would doubt it, Russia has always been pretty careful what they sold the Chinese, to ensure it was not turned back on them. SLBM's would be pretty high on the list of things not to sell to a potential adversary.

 

[Catmando]

.....
The South Vietnamese even fought an actual naval battle with the PRC in 1974 over the still-disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. North Vietnam reiterated the Vietnamese claim on the islands in 1976.
.

Ah yes, the forever disputed Paracel Islands (and the Spratleys too).

We occasionally flew from Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin, to Cubi Pt. in the PI. near the hostile islands.

Sometimes we flew on wing with aircraft that had some 'better navigation' than we. But most of the time we were alone in the F-4s, and it was therefore pure dead-reckoning over-water navigation to Cubi that stressed our max range. But the main thing we feared (aside from not finding the Phillipines on a long, DR flight) was passing too close to the Paracel Islands.

It made no difference if the Vietnamese or the Chinese were there, they alway fired on us if we cut the corner too close. It was a very dangerous place to fly near if you unfortunately, "cut the corner."

So we flew, time/distance southerly, until we thought we were clear of the islands, then we turned toward the PI. The hoped-for massive "towering Q" on the nose was always a relief, because it reassured us our DR course was roughly correct and on track. (Massive buildups were prevelant over land in the South Pacific, much more so than over open sea. Ergo, thunderheads on the nose indicated (hopefully) land, until we could finally come within TACAN range to confirm, and to adjust course to Cubi Pt. Only then could we rest easier. ... and start thinking about San Magoos, etc.