Viking vs Grumman prop birds: how to count & evaluate traps?

[Max the Mad Russian]

Hi all,

Have read that initially Viking squadrons had two-pilot roster for every A-model bird, but then the question arose: which carrier trap is whose? How to count? Then, it have been written, the 1310 co-pilot in a starboard chair had been replaced by 1320. Is it true?
The question is: how E-2/C-2 1310 guys/gals are counting their landings, being paired till today?

 

[kmac]

The guy at the controls gets credit for the landing.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Yeah, I see, thanks. But how to share this credit between two 1310s in E-2 or C-2? Ok, let's leave CODs alone - I've been told LSOs are quite indulgent to them and credit for one landing could be given to both. But Hawkeyes?

 

[Uncle Fester]

The pilot at the controls logs the trap and the LSO grade.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Well, does it mean that landing of a Hawkeye is always a one-pilot job? Then they both should decide everytime who will land the airplane? Or this is a prescribed decision of OpsO or XO during the preflight brief?

 

[Uncle Fester]

It's decided by the OpsO via his minion the Skeds officer (though ultimately of course the Skipper signs the schedule and thus it's really 'his' decision) who's the pilot and who the CP for any given flight. Ops will factor in who's fat on hours for the month and who's lean, young'uns who need more hours and traps to upgrade their quals, etc. The CAPC (plane commander) can sit pilot or CP.

 

[Renegade One]

So EVERYBODY in the E-2 gets "a trap in their log book"...except the pilot "not at the controls"?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

It's decided by the OpsO via his minion the Skeds officer (though ultimately of course the Skipper signs the schedule and thus it's really 'his' decision) who's the pilot and who the CP for any given flight. Ops will factor in who's fat on hours for the month and who's lean, young'uns who need more hours and traps to upgrade their quals, etc. The CAPC (plane commander) can sit pilot or CP.

Nice practice, understood. Thanks a lot. Maybe VAW squadrons have less pilots than Viking-equipped VSs had so it is possible for OpsO and eventually CO not to mess that sequences up. Wonder if Viking's 1320 COTAC in starboard seat could land airplane on deck instead of pilot if similar practice had been there...

 

[Uncle Fester]

Nice practice, understood. Thanks a lot. Maybe VAW squadrons have less pilots than Viking-equipped VSs had so it is possible for OpsO and eventually CO not to mess that sequences up.

The Hoovs went with a COTAC NFO in the right seat a long while back, not least for the hours/traps/quals management. It was discussed with E-2D, for the same reasons and since the AHE can bring up a full mission display in the cockpit, but ultimately it was decided that it was easier to teach a pilot to do some controller stuff than to teach a FO to do copilot stuff.

Managing the flight schedule at sea and balancing hours without pissing anyone off is what makes being Skeds a thankless job.

 

[HAL Pilot]

So EVERYBODY in the E-2 gets "a trap in their log book"...except the pilot "not at the controls"?

A NFO logging a trap is like an airline passenger logging a landing. Both are meaningless except to a NFO worried about dick size. In that case, just buy a big watch then you can at least show it off...

 

[kmac]

Technically one could log a copilot (or whatever it's called) landing. There's a code for that in CNAF M-3710.7. I just don't know anyone that would do that.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

It was discussed with E-2D, for the same reasons and since the AHE can bring up a full mission display in the cockpit, but ultimately it was decided that it was easier to teach a pilot to do some controller stuff than to teach a FO to do copilot stuff.

Resembled the helo community approach. By the way, here comes the campaign against the former civil aviation navigators (all Soviets-designed airliners had the NAV in a crew roster) who became pilots after transition to Boeing and Airbus liners. At least two recent crashes of domestical flights in Russia occured with former navs as a captains, both (737 birds) due to stalling on landing, and another one (Tu-134) when drank nav advised to rookie pilot to set wrong course.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Technically one could log a copilot (or whatever it's called) landing. There's a code for that in CNAF M-3710.7. I just don't know anyone that would do that.

Wait, is that for COD? You mean copilot usually has no credit??

 

[Gatordev]

Wait, is that for COD? You mean copilot usually has no credit??

You keep asking the same question and you keep getting the same answer. The person at the controls logs the landing. That's true in any Naval Aviation platform, no matter how many pilots are sitting in the cockpit.

 

[Jim123]

I would just like to take this opportunity to brag about all of my traps. Sure they're on surface combatants... but they're still traps darnit!