Viper earning the name "Lawn dart"

[wink]

It really took the fire guys too long to get there. There would have been no real chance to extricate the pilot if it had burned. I would think that when they have high performance aircraft landing on a runway of that length, or air show performance underway, that emergency equipment should be standing by the runway/show line. It isn't like there haven't been incidents at Oshkosh before. Come to think of it, considering the support that the military gives Oshkosh every year, why don't we see an augment of fire/emergency crews by the military, especially the Guard. Heck, the Air Guard in Tucson can't fly their law darts at Tuscon Intl without having USAF crash guys standing by the runway in their trucks. And that is at an airport with crash crews trained for large conflagrations and demonstrated response time per the FARS.

 

[BigIron]

safe to say he's getting a new call sign?

Auger.

 

[BadgerDave]

While I'm not qualified to speak as to what is and isn't fast enough, as a regular Oshkosh attendee (33 of the last 34 years, including this year) my comments are based on what I've seen in the past and with some knowledge of USAF/ANG support.

I would think that when they have high performance aircraft landing on a runway of that length, or air show performance underway, that emergency equipment should be standing by the runway/show line.

They are ARFF resources that patrol the entire property, including both runways (active simultaneously), taxiways, aircraft parking, FBOs, etc.

Come to think of it, considering the support that the military gives Oshkosh every year, why don't we see an augment of fire/emergency crews by the military, especially the Guard.

Already done, as it has for as many years as I can remember. The WI ANG sends ARFF trucks up from the 128th at MKE to support Oshkosh, along with ground support personnel that help manage the various ramps that hold military aircraft and often Security Police as well. The ARFF resources are dispatched as part of the overall multi-agency ARFF support for Oshkosh hosted by the Oshkosh Fire Dept and overseen by the FAA.

Heck, the Air Guard in Tucson can't fly their law darts at Tuscon Intl without having USAF crash guys standing by the runway in their trucks. And that is at an airport with crash crews trained for large conflagrations and demonstrated response time per the FARS.

Given the size and complexity of Oshkosh, I'm not sure how realistic that is.

JMO,
Dave

 

[helolumpy]

Glad that he is okay, It's gonna suck making that phone call to the CO.

It may have gone something like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN_Nod65e7o

 

[wink]

While I'm not qualified to speak as to what is and isn't fast enough, as a regular Oshkosh attendee (33 of the last 34 years, including this year) my comments are based on what I've seen in the past and with some knowledge of USAF/ANG support....

Dave

Thanks for the details Dave. I am a bit familiar with the ARFF requirements at Part 139 airports. While Oshkosh isn't Part 139, it should be able to meet these requirements during AirVenture. Honestly, it appears to have met the basic requirement of 3 minute response, as the entire video is less than that. Three minutes is a long time though. You say that they are augmented quite well. Glad to hear it. I have been to Oshkosh and only saw military guys on the ramp, never military ARFF anywhere, my bad. Is it too much to have the ARFF guys in their best position when landing high performance jets on an 8000' runway? Having been there, I don't see how the way AirVenture is set up operationally or run would prevent positioning ARFF mid field or abouts on 36/18, and then one or two over on the north complex is so difficult. Certainly they don't have the big ARRF apparatus "patrolling" as you say. I am not an expert. But I am informed by an incident I was part of many years ago. As a recruiter in a non Navy city I was the point of contact coordinating Navy fly in aircraft for an airshow. I was sought out at an evening happy hour for aircrew telling me the late (of course) arriving flight of two F-18s were on fire. After many anxious moments trying to get an update on the situation I wondered about the appropriateness of the fire department response at this general aviation airport. Turns out the F-18s only had hot brakes (about a 7000' runway) that glowed and smoked so bad it was reported as burning.

 

[SocialD]

Do all Vipers have an arresting hook?

Yes. Also, any base with F-16's based there will have both an approach and departure end cable.

 

[cameron172]

http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
"F-16 Runway Overrun at Oshkosh"

Interesting recording of the Viper being cleared and planning for a long roll.