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War in Israel

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JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Not like Biden's. Trump has his version of word salad, yes, but not where you'd question his mental acuity. He just more comes across as a loud mouthed blabbering moron.
Maybe lay off the Hannity and Mark Levin for a bit. Your statement is laughable. You say 45 comes off as a "loud mouthed blabbering moron", but you express unfounded concerns for 46's "mental acuity".

Watch this whole press conference from a few days ago. Your assertions are ridiculous.

 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Actually, I'd say my instincts on them have been pretty rock solid. For example I suspected Biden would win the presidency and I also suspected came GOP would under perform in the midterms.

What is your point here? I was a tot while Reagan was in office, so I didn't see him as President. I on the other hand can very easily see Biden. I remember Biden VERY clearly from the past and he (to me) has clearly suffered a mental decline, so I am very suspect that he's the actual one calling the shots.
Just stop talking.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Not like Biden's. Trump has his version of word salad, yes, but not where you'd question his mental acuity. He just more comes across as a loud mouthed blabbering moron.
I'm not interested in pursuing this argument if you can't be objective, sorry.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
Maybe lay off the Hannity and Mark Levin for a bit. Your statement is laughable. You say 45 comes off as a "loud mouthed blabbering moron", but you express unfounded concerns for 46's "mental acuity".

Watch this whole press conference from a few days ago. Your assertions are ridiculous.

I don't watch Hannity or Levin or really Fox News period. I watched the whole press conference and respectfully I think you have some ideological blinders on. Biden seemed barely able to speak and form words in multiple instances. I mean this is a man who was a notorious loudmouth himself and who was very in command when debating Paul Ryan in the 2012 VP debate for example. Now he seems to struggle just to speak. I think he handled the questions well overall and I am not claiming he's totally gone or anything, but I do not envision him as some strong force behind the scenes calling for these policies.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Here is polling data from 4 different sources (Pew, Monmouth, PBS/NPR and Washington Post/ABC News)

From Pew Research 7 Apr 2023


About two-thirds of Democrats (65%) say “able to get things done” describes Biden at least fairly well, while a narrower majority (of Democrats ) (56%) say the same about “mentally sharp.” (* Note: when combined with Republicans and Independents, the number for mentally sharp in the graph is 31%*)


From The Hill quoting Monmouth University Poll 2 Oct 2023


A Monmouth University poll found 76 percent of voters think Biden is too old to effectively serve another term, compared to only 48 percent who said the same about Trump. Biden is 80, while Trump is 77.


From the PBS / NPR poll on 23 May 2023:


A month into Joe Biden's reelection campaign, 62 percent of Americans say that the question of his mental fitness is a real concern about his ability to be president. That's 11 points higher than for the leading Republican candidate, former President Donald Trump, whose mental fitness is a concern for 51 percent.

and finally from The Washington Post / ABC News poll of 8 May 2023:


A new Washington Post-ABC poll this weekend spotlighted this better than anything to date. While 54 percent said Trump had the mental sharpness it takes to effectively serve as president, just 32 percent said the same of Biden. The split was even bigger on physical health, with 63 percent saying Trump passed their test and just 33 percent saying Biden did.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
One consideration is this is likely Gen Z's first time having to recon with Middle East politics that isn't related to Iraq/Afghanistan/ISIS. I'd argue that simplistic views on Israel and it being led by Bibi during most of their adult lives hasn't helped either. Hopefully some learning can occur. While at times I lament the age of POTUS46, in this (and Ukraine) his leadership has been excellent, with moral clarity on the threats being faced. His public comments while visiting Israel last week were quite excellent as well, if not under-reported.

Sadly I'm with @Brett327 though, there will be a million more shiny objects between now and Nov 2024.
Genuinely curious what you mean by the bolded section. "Simplistic" can mean "uninformed" but I'm not sure that's what you meant...?

If that is what you meant, is your argument that people who strongly support the actions of the Israeli government (please note the wording), particularly over the last two decades or so, are generally better informed than people who criticize these actions/policies?
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
Here is polling data from 4 different sources (Pew, Monmouth, PBS/NPR and Washington Post/ABC News)

From Pew Research 7 Apr 2023


About two-thirds of Democrats (65%) say “able to get things done” describes Biden at least fairly well, while a narrower majority (of Democrats ) (56%) say the same about “mentally sharp.” (* Note: when combined with Republicans and Independents, the number for mentally sharp in the graph is 31%*)


From The Hill quoting Monmouth University Poll 2 Oct 2023


A Monmouth University poll found 76 percent of voters think Biden is too old to effectively serve another term, compared to only 48 percent who said the same about Trump. Biden is 80, while Trump is 77.


From the PBS / NPR poll on 23 May 2023:


A month into Joe Biden's reelection campaign, 62 percent of Americans say that the question of his mental fitness is a real concern about his ability to be president. That's 11 points higher than for the leading Republican candidate, former President Donald Trump, whose mental fitness is a concern for 51 percent.

and finally from The Washington Post / ABC News poll of 8 May 2023:


A new Washington Post-ABC poll this weekend spotlighted this better than anything to date. While 54 percent said Trump had the mental sharpness it takes to effectively serve as president, just 32 percent said the same of Biden. The split was even bigger on physical health, with 63 percent saying Trump passed their test and just 33 percent saying Biden did.
Agree with the thread split, but I thought the conversation was about Pres. Biden's *actual* mental acuity, as far as we can discern it, and NOT about his *perceived* mental actuity.

Because, as others have pointed out, "Senile Biden" has been one of conservatism's Big Lies since he took office, even while he's been putting lots of substantive points on the board (CHIPS Act, PACT Act, Infrastructure Bill, Ukraine support, etc).

These polls are more of an indicator that the Big Lie is effective, rather than that the president is ineffective. And Americans are easy to sway.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Agree with the thread split, but I thought the conversation was about Pres. Biden's *actual* mental acuity, as far as we can perceive it, and NOT about his *perceived* mental actuity.
Fixed it for you. Unless your thoughts are somehow indicative of his *actual* mental acuity and not just your perception of it, while everyone else can only speak to their perception. Do you live in the west wing, or somehow have access to info the rest of the poll respondents don't?

This whole argument is silly. Neither Biden or Trump are worthy of the office of President. The fact we can't get better options than a couple of old corrupt geezers is an absolute embarrassment.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
Fixed it for you. Unless your thoughts are somehow indicative of his *actual* mental acuity and not just your perception of it, while everyone else can only speak to their perception. Do you live in the west wing, or somehow have access to info the rest of the poll respondents don't?

This whole argument is silly. Neither Biden or Trump are worthy of the office of President. The fact we can't get better options than a couple of old corrupt geezers is an absolute embarrassment.
My dude..."perceive" and "discern" are used pretty much identically here. Especially with the context, most native English speakers would understand that you just restated exactly what I said, just in a more annoying fashion. To wit: Pres Biden has some level of mental acuity. And what people (including me, you, and probably everyone else on this website) *think*, based on press conferences, public appearances, etc, has absolutely no impact on what it actually is. Therefore, the long-ass posting with four different polls offers practically zero insight on the president's actual level of mental acuity. So come on down off the high horse.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
This whole argument is silly. Neither Biden or Trump are worthy of the office of President. The fact we can't get better options than a couple of old corrupt geezers is an absolute embarrassment.
I'm sitting on the sidelines hoping that most of the Republicans run out of money because I think Haley can beat Trump or DeSantis in a 2-3 person race and restore some sanity to the election (assuming Trump isn't in prison / on house arrest by then), and I think she would have a really good shot in a race against Biden.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
My dude..."perceive" and "discern" are used pretty much identically here. Especially with the context, most native English speakers would understand that you just restated exactly what I said, just in a more annoying fashion. To wit: Pres Biden has some level of mental acuity. And what people (including me, you, and probably everyone else on this website) *think*, based on press conferences, public appearances, etc, has absolutely no impact on what it actually is. Therefore, the long-ass posting with four different polls offers practically zero insight on the president's actual level of mental acuity. So come on down off the high horse.
If you meant "discern" and "perceive" interchangeably, and my change did not change the meaning, then wtf was your meaning? You are stating definitively that the majority of Americans perception is wrong because they believed the "Big Lie" as you claim, and yours is right. Ie, that everyone else's perception is wrong and yours is right.

His actual level of mental acuity is unknowable. Perception is reality. Those polls matter. Your guess is no better than others, so please come off your high horse.

So... Israel, amiright?
 

SynixMan

Mobilizer Extraordinaire
pilot
Contributor
Genuinely curious what you mean by the bolded section. "Simplistic" can mean "uninformed" but I'm not sure that's what you meant...?

If that is what you meant, is your argument that people who strongly support the actions of the Israeli government (please note the wording), particularly over the last two decades or so, are generally better informed than people who criticize these actions/policies?

I was referring to the “colonizer” framework that's popular in academia circles. That overly simplistic IMO intellectual framework is used by younger folks without context as a crutch to critique the very existence of the Israeli state. I very much agree with Biden’s statement on this (can’t find the exact transcript at the moment), to the effect of the Israeli state’s existence is vitally important to the Jewish diaspora worldwide.

I can also hold that thought together with the fact that I've found Benjamin Netanyahu's hardline leadership and stance to be odious and counterproductive, and that the human rights of Palestinians shouldn't be run roughshod over and have a repeat of Aleppo/Grozny.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
I was referring to the “colonizer” framework that's popular in academia circles. That overly simplistic IMO intellectual framework is used by younger folks without context as a crutch to critique the very existence of the Israeli state. I very much agree with Biden’s statement on this (can’t find the exact transcript at the moment), to the effect of the Israeli state’s existence is vitally important to the Jewish diaspora worldwide.

I can also hold that thought together with the fact that I've found Benjamin Netanyahu's hardline leadership and stance to be odious and counterproductive, and that the human rights of Palestinians shouldn't be run roughshod over and have a repeat of Aleppo/Grozny.
Fair enough, a reasonable point
 
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