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Warrant officers
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
ChuckMK23 said:
I heard it described by an AF guy the other day like this: You have three people to do one job. One guy doesn't know what he/she is doing. The next is there to do the job and maybe help the knucklehead guy. Then there's a third guy to manage the other two, and doesn't actually do any of the work.
I think this same principle applies to the red line on the flight line. One guy doesn't notice, one guy is there to yell at you and shoot you, and the third guy is there to make sure the second guy pulled the trigger.
Tom said:
I am in Tom's corner on this one. Think this is a general WO/LDO "question", not directly related to the NA/NFO WO program recently announced. Hate to thread-jack, hence the segue.
Actual happening:
While PIRAZ on YS in GOT, "Charlie" got a lucky shot with 85MM mortar in our superstructure, took out our surface search radar and our TACAN. Situation critical. Meeting immediately followed. In attendance:
Technicians: ET2 and ET1. Both A and B school, E5 with 3 C schools, ET1 number of C and TechRep training schools. Sharp sailors.
Division Chief: ETCM. 18 years service, extensive knowledge of most all Navy Radar systems. BSEE Electronic Engineering Degree from Top Tier Engineering school via NESEP (Navy Enlisted Scientific Education Program). Known curmudgeon/cynic.
EMO: CWO3. 10 years service, 4 as WO. High School graduate. No experience with radar systems, extensive experience in SONAR equipment. Witty, highly promotable.
A/DO: ENS, LDO. 7 Years service. High School GED. Recent LDO. Superb military bearing. Very intelligent LDO.:icon_wink
DO: LT(jg). Experienced JO. 2 years on DESRON staff as PAO. Master of Arts degree in Anthropology. Reported about 2 months ago in Subic. "Go getter", as Navy is prone to say.
We were told that "help was on the way", as they expected the Ops Boss would be down any minute, Weapons Officer would be down in 5 and XO would be down after completion of briefing by CIC Officer.
In retrospect, guess I was confused.
But as all filed out of the meeting, they each said, nearly in unison, "Chief, if you need any help, just let me know!" That made me feel a bunch better.
etnuclearsailor
STA 21 Nuclear OC
WO-1 is a warrant granted by the service's secretary (the Navy no longer uses it). Back when WO1 existed, a WO1 would be commissioned to CWO2. CWO2 and up are officers who hold commissions from the POTUS, the same as any Ensign or higher. CWO2-CWO5 are effectively the same rank and hold the same types of billets. The difference is merely to have pay increases and to recognize time and seniority within the CWO community. CWO5 was created when people were making it to CWO4 with nowhere to go. CWO's could apply to continue their climb in the officer community and try for the LDO program.
LDO's were going to be phased out in favor of expanding the CWO community, then CWO's were going to be phased out in favor of the LDO program. Now they are co-existing.
LDO's face the possibility of reverting to their enlisted grades if they do not stay for ten years after being commissioned. They can also decide they simply want to opt-out and return to their life as a chief.
I understand LDO's are now elligible to hold some command billets.
I read a lot, and I talk to a lot of people.
LDO's were going to be phased out in favor of expanding the CWO community, then CWO's were going to be phased out in favor of the LDO program. Now they are co-existing.
LDO's face the possibility of reverting to their enlisted grades if they do not stay for ten years after being commissioned. They can also decide they simply want to opt-out and return to their life as a chief.
I understand LDO's are now elligible to hold some command billets.
I read a lot, and I talk to a lot of people.
Sundown
Eight-year-olds, Dude...
etnuclearsailor
STA 21 Nuclear OC
??
The Navy doesn't use WO1. The rank still has an insignia, since no doubt people have retired at WO1 and are still alive.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/officers/o-rank.html
The Navy doesn't use WO1. The rank still has an insignia, since no doubt people have retired at WO1 and are still alive.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/officers/o-rank.html
Again I just find it odd with the lack of continuity in the services. An Air Force E-8 might hold the same job as an Army CWO3 or Navy 0-3 LDO. Then you have the Navy and Marines who have warrants but don't have WO-1's.
I guess everyone can look at the other service and say their way is the best. I always wondered why the Army didn't follow suit of their sister services and have an all Regular Officer Aviation Corp.
I think that it was posted earlier that the Army and Navy decided to adopt an LDO program and do away with the Warrant program. I remember reading this in the somewhere in the Army aviation history. Guess the Army didn't want to put up the cash.
Lots of good info on the the thread that I never knew. A-4 has some great stories and experiences. Love to hear that kind of stuff.
I guess everyone can look at the other service and say their way is the best. I always wondered why the Army didn't follow suit of their sister services and have an all Regular Officer Aviation Corp.
I think that it was posted earlier that the Army and Navy decided to adopt an LDO program and do away with the Warrant program. I remember reading this in the somewhere in the Army aviation history. Guess the Army didn't want to put up the cash.
Lots of good info on the the thread that I never knew. A-4 has some great stories and experiences. Love to hear that kind of stuff.
A) The Marine Corps has WO1's
B) I don't believe the Marine Corps has LDO's.
C) To answer the original question in a simple way:
Warrant Officers do jobs that require a) technical expertise and b) an officer.
For example, an Admin Chief might be a WO because the billet requires an officer's signature on things, and he would have the technical expertise to ensure that all the paperwork that could possibly cross his desk would be in order.
B) I don't believe the Marine Corps has LDO's.
C) To answer the original question in a simple way:
Warrant Officers do jobs that require a) technical expertise and b) an officer.
For example, an Admin Chief might be a WO because the billet requires an officer's signature on things, and he would have the technical expertise to ensure that all the paperwork that could possibly cross his desk would be in order.
HueyCobra8151 said:
We do. The ones that come to mind are aircraft maintenance engineering officers, avionics officers, and aviation ordnance officers (6004, 6302, and 6502 respectively.) I know there are more but I'm not real familiar with those, things like 4602, 5902. Anything listed as Category II in the MOS manual is an LDO MOS.
MarineAir, I think they are just generically referred to that because a "gunner" I believe is specifically a CWO5 who is a specialist in the infantry and wears a bursting bomb insignia on one side of their collar signifying that they are a gunner. Somehow CWOs have traditionally been referred to as "gunners" even though most really are not. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.
Can someone answer this: when Marine CWOs are selected to become LDOs are they automatically commissioned as Captains? Can they only reach the rank of Lt. Col.? Just curious because a buddy of mine told me his old CWO is now a Captain and the timeline would not add up to 3 or 4 years as a commissioned officer to be promoted up to Captain.
Can someone answer this: when Marine CWOs are selected to become LDOs are they automatically commissioned as Captains? Can they only reach the rank of Lt. Col.? Just curious because a buddy of mine told me his old CWO is now a Captain and the timeline would not add up to 3 or 4 years as a commissioned officer to be promoted up to Captain.
Thisguy
Pain-in-the-dick
SgtUSMC said:
In the Navy, a Warrant who gets picked up for LDO is promoted to O-2E, so then it's just to years until O-3E. If the Marines do it the same way, that could explain how he made Capt so quickly.
I know the Navy has LDO billets up to O-6, but I'm not sure if CWO to LDO types are capped at O-5.
