And how many of those folks would be officers today if they didn't have the chance to be an aviator? I've never bought into the "officer first" argument since so many of us wouldn't be an officer without being an aviator.
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Watches...the Skinny?
- Thread starter SticknRudder
- Start date
And how many of those folks would be officers today if they didn't have the chance to be an aviator? I've never bought into the "officer first" argument since so many of us wouldn't be an officer without being an aviator.
How noble of you.
I think people take the Officer First a little far, but I think it's an important idea to get across. Here's my logic: I joined the Navy because I wanted to fly. There's nothing wrong with that, but once you sign on the dotted line, you have to accept the fact that you made a committment, dare I say, an oath, to do the job asked. If you can swing it, hopefully that job is flying all the time, but if you're still contractually obligated to serve, you can't take your toys and go home and pout. I've always taken the mindset that the price of the Navy letting me fly is that I have to do paperwork and take care of my people that I've been tasked to lead. When I don't do the latter, it's completely understandable for the Navy to make me lose the right to the former. Maybe a little black and white, but you get the idea.
Which leads me back to SticknRudder... If you want to fly, great. I don't know what a "true pilot" is, but I'd consider myself someone who genuinely enjoys flying. I started flying when I was 12. I worked as a lineman at the local airport for flight time. Now I'm trying to engineer my next tour to be yet another flying tour (my fourth in a row). But I've been able to do that because I've also taken care of the ground stuff, too. But you know how I started my career? I took the oath, signed the dotted line to be an aviator, and then was told I was NPQ'ed. Was I disappointed? You bet, but I didn't start spouting off how I was destined to be a pilot and all this officer/paperwork was someone elses problem. And because of that, I had a command stand behind me long enough that I could turn everything around and get PQ again.
Don't join the Navy (or the Marines) JUST so you can fly and assume everyone else will take care of the paperwork/ground stuff. Your squadronmates will loathe you and you'll quickly be considered a no-load. But if you do join, know you'll be able to fly in environments you generally won't see on the civilian side while flying hardware that you won't get to touch while a civilian.
When I joined the Navy as an enlisted sailor more than 10 years ago I did so with the intention of flying and just being around planes. After my initial commitment I had a very difficult decision. Should I stay in the Navy and try getting a degree to become an officer or should I cut the string now to try for a shot later in life. So I cut the string and departed. There have been many days since then that I have questioned that decision. Now I find myself in a privileged and very lucky position to rejoin the Navy as an officer. Am I joining the Navy to fly again? Yes. Do I want to serve my country? Yes. Are these the only reasons? No.
I realized something amazing my first go around in the Navy. While everyone here is correct that there is a ton of responsibility, leadership, and paperwork you will be responsible for there is something even more important than that in my opinion. Your people. As an officer this is extremely important in my opinion. I was privileged to watch and work with amazing men/women that were excellent at taking care of their people. As an enlisted guy I appreciated them more for it. I was also lucky to see a couple that didn't care about their people as much. This helped me gain bearings on how I should act as an officer. I want to join not because I want to fly or because I want to serve my country. I really want to rejoin because of that camaraderie. I want to take care of those men/women the way I was taken care of. I want to help them with everything I can by every means possible. I am sorry but I can fly in the civilian world. I can still serve my country in other ways. My experiences working in the civilian world are not even close to what I have experienced in the Navy. Thus, I would not be doing this today if it wasn't for the leadership I experienced during my initial enlistment. This was emphasized again to me when I began this process and all of the officers I worked with stepped up to see what they could help me with. That is why I am rejoining! To me it is more important then flying.
Thank you for verbalizing what I was thinking, Gator.
SticknRudder
New Member
Ha...totally. Now Gator and Twobe...thank you for your good points! Something to think about.
Take my wings, and I'll take a hike...Proud to say I was born to fly! Now I'll put up with a certain amount of ground-pounder stuff to do it, but a true pilot is a special breed, don't ever forget that
Ok allow me to elaborate. If they "take your wings" you'll take a hike? First that's not how it works, and second that doesn't exactly make you sound dedicated. You'll "put up" with "ground pounder stuff"? I'm not even sure what you're talking about if you are going Navy. Also it makes you sound like a douche. As for the "true pilot" and "born to fly" crap, yeah that is pretty high on the douche scale as well. I tell you this because if you walk around spouting off that crap you won't enjoy the results.
I couldn't agree more.
I dont' know about you dudes, but flight pay was a nice perk I found out about. How else can I afford hookers and blow, whilst still making the SWOs jealous?
But in seriousness, when I started looking into going from the civilian business world to a more meaningful career, the lifestyle and camaraderie I heard about firsthand from retired Aviators and read about here seemed to eclipse that displayed elsewhere. Combine that with a good compensation system (base + BAH + BAS + Flight Pay + Sea/Haz/Deployment/FSA/etc) and opportunity for advancement as an officer, and it seemed like an awesome opportunity. I consider the ground job stuff to be part of that deal. If all you give a shit about is flying and you blow off other stuff, well that's kind of a shitty attitude. I'm sure you'll be a hit in your TRARON and fleet wardrooms.
But in seriousness, when I started looking into going from the civilian business world to a more meaningful career, the lifestyle and camaraderie I heard about firsthand from retired Aviators and read about here seemed to eclipse that displayed elsewhere. Combine that with a good compensation system (base + BAH + BAS + Flight Pay + Sea/Haz/Deployment/FSA/etc) and opportunity for advancement as an officer, and it seemed like an awesome opportunity. I consider the ground job stuff to be part of that deal. If all you give a shit about is flying and you blow off other stuff, well that's kind of a shitty attitude. I'm sure you'll be a hit in your TRARON and fleet wardrooms.
This line just stuck out at me... TRARONs? Really? Does anyone give a shit there? I remember them being mainly just SNA factories... you show up, brief, fly, go home. Stand some watches... maybe some squadron events once in a while. NO ONE cares about anything other than flying at VTs/HTs. Nor will anyone care if YOU care about anything else. You don't have a job other than flying there.... Plus, from flight school, how do you know about fleet wardrooms anyway?
Watch out for all the extra sodium loaded in otto's last post.
Synix makes a good point, even if he is still working on his wings. The dudes who don't give a shit about anything but flying might do well initially, but eventually it all catches up. You can be a god in the plane and still fuck it all away by being a doucher on the ground and sucking ass at the "other stuff" that takes up 85% of our time.
Synix makes a good point, even if he is still working on his wings. The dudes who don't give a shit about anything but flying might do well initially, but eventually it all catches up. You can be a god in the plane and still fuck it all away by being a doucher on the ground and sucking ass at the "other stuff" that takes up 85% of our time.
Collateral Dutiies
_
Well I know a lot about fleet ready rooms (5 Fleet Squadrons), and Synix is spot on. Your attitude on this thread sounds "short timer"! Anyone who has been around knows that if you are not enthusiastic about your ground duties (esp. DIVOs), the Troops will notice it, as well as your reporting seniors.
Your FITREP has only one little area for grading airmanship (and the vast majority of fleet aviators are outstanding or they wouldn't be there), so your "ground" collateral dutiy performance will be a major factor for promotions and a successful career. When you EARN the respect of your Sailors, you will know that you are doing fine in your "non-flying" duties that seem like a drudge to some of you. :sleep_125
BzB
_
Well I know a lot about fleet ready rooms (5 Fleet Squadrons), and Synix is spot on. Your attitude on this thread sounds "short timer"! Anyone who has been around knows that if you are not enthusiastic about your ground duties (esp. DIVOs), the Troops will notice it, as well as your reporting seniors.
Your FITREP has only one little area for grading airmanship (and the vast majority of fleet aviators are outstanding or they wouldn't be there), so your "ground" collateral dutiy performance will be a major factor for promotions and a successful career. When you EARN the respect of your Sailors, you will know that you are doing fine in your "non-flying" duties that seem like a drudge to some of you. :sleep_125
BzB
Where Do We Get Such Men?
:banghead_-
Dumbest post I've suffered in ages...:icon_trou
1. "Take my Wings" - What Wings?
2, "Born to fly" - So are Buzzards!
3, "Now I'll put up with..." - That will surely please your CO!
4. "Don't ever forget that" - We'll all try not to forget!
*Try the AF, all they do is fly, fly, fly!
BzB
:banghead_-
Dumbest post I've suffered in ages...:icon_trou
1. "Take my Wings" - What Wings?
2, "Born to fly" - So are Buzzards!
3, "Now I'll put up with..." - That will surely please your CO!
4. "Don't ever forget that" - We'll all try not to forget!
*Try the AF, all they do is fly, fly, fly!
BzB
You are "special" aren't you?Take my wings, and I'll take a hike...Proud to say I was born to fly! Now I'll put up with a certain amount of ground-pounder stuff to do it, but a true pilot is a special breed, don't ever forget that
Fucking retard.........
I'm not debating he had a valid point. It just made me chuckle about training squadrons caring about your "job" and not just flying.. WHAT job?
And I have been a DIVO. I spent a LOT of time in the hangar learning about my guys, thanks.
Otto, I am sure you have. Aside from that one sentence I cited, the bulk of my post was to try to clue in those posters who seem to consider any duty other than flying, as a boring drain on their "ground time".
BzB