Just started, pretty good so far.
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What are you reading?
- Thread starter Recovering LSO
- Start date
Just started, pretty good so far.
Discussion here on Pacific theater and on crypto in other active thread made me think of Cryptonomicon. Not sure if I’ve plugged to this group before but it’s a good investment of time if you can nerd out to both those things.
This book came up this morning on another forum. The reviews vary but seem to be mostly positive, but what's strange (pardon the pun...) is the authors of some of the most positive reviews seem to come from Vietnam vets who would have every reason to be spiteful and bitter. (Assuming the reviews are legitimate- I don't think a book like this would have an astroturfing online review campaign.)
I remember when Robert S. was in his twilight years and there were strong opinions in mil/vet groups that he was voicing his version of events to paint himself in a favorable light. But some of the reviews speak to this book being rather objective. Any opinions?
I remember when Robert S. was in his twilight years and there were strong opinions in mil/vet groups that he was voicing his version of events to paint himself in a favorable light. But some of the reviews speak to this book being rather objective. Any opinions?
Amazon.com: In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam: 9780679767497: Robert S. McNamara, Brian VanDeMark: Books
Amazon.com: In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam: 9780679767497: Robert S. McNamara, Brian VanDeMark: Books
www.amazon.com
I read it when it was first published in 1999. The book is analytical, direct, and well sourced but is almost a dissertation “war game” of the conflict and the Vietnamese simply beat McNamara again...this time on paper. For me it was a telling look at a man who keeps looking at his calculus and can’t understand how the math could be right but the solution wrong. Basically, Bobby S. can’t get his rather powerful brain around the idea that war is a human endeavor and humans don’t fight for logic, reason, or toward any mathematical solution. In my opinion he cries out, “Why didn’t this work?” without seeing that he was a heartless, arrogant mathematician that managed the war to a colossal failure.
Keep in mind that my reading of this book was quickly followed by GWOT and my own combat experience where I watched 24 year old, white shoe State Department “kids” gasp when “those people” (a term they actually used) failed to act like the ones in their Harvard/Yale simulations. At the same time I saw some rather brilliant military officers deftly shift from one “campaign” to the next (campaign against Iraqi Army, campaign against the “dead enders” campaign against Iraqi Shia,...) despite the best, and often flawed, plans of the “smart people.”
So...I recommend the book...but I recommend you read it with other combat specific or strategic in-depth war studies like “Last Stand at Khe Sanh” by Gregg Jones, McMasters’ “Dereliction of Duty,” and Bowden‘s “Hue, 1968.”
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Thanks- it sounds like you could almost describe it as a character study (when the primary purpose of a book or a movie is someone's personality, rather than a story of a series of events). Maybe a sort of unwitting, autobiographical character study, not how he intended the book but where its greatest value lies.
Thanks for the tip about not reading it alone. I think Dereliction of Duty was on the suggested additional readings list of a PME course a few years ago (but the core reading was overwhelming just by itself). I've certainly heard it mentioned, and several times at that.
Thanks for the tip about not reading it alone. I think Dereliction of Duty was on the suggested additional readings list of a PME course a few years ago (but the core reading was overwhelming just by itself). I've certainly heard it mentioned, and several times at that.
Figured as 2020 finishes up and I'm finally done with my GoodReads challenge it might be good to put out my personal "best of" reading list for the year that I think some people on this forum may enjoy in particular. Some of the titles just felt right in 2020 and I thought this might be a good idea -especially because I'm hoping people will put up their own book lists so I can get some suggestions for next year!
Enemy at the Gates - The Battle for Stalingrad - William Craig
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee - Dee Brown
Where Men Win Glory - Jon Krakauer
Triple Sticks - Bernard Fipp
Invisible Man - Ralph Ellison
Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
Under the Banner of Heaven - Krakauer
Say Nothing - Patrick Radden Keefe
Trinity - Leon Uris
Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors - James Hornfischer
Washington - Ron Chernow
Slaughterhouse Five - Kurt Vonnegut
1984 - Orwell
Twilight of the Gods: War in the Western Pacific, 1944-45 - Ian A. Toll
As much as 2020 has been generally sucked I've been happy to have been able to get a fair amount of reading done. Currently reading "Rampage: MacArthur, Yamashita, and the Battle of Manila", by James M. Scott at the suggestion of one Dan Carlin and so far it has not disappointed.
Enemy at the Gates - The Battle for Stalingrad - William Craig
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee - Dee Brown
Where Men Win Glory - Jon Krakauer
Triple Sticks - Bernard Fipp
Invisible Man - Ralph Ellison
Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
Under the Banner of Heaven - Krakauer
Say Nothing - Patrick Radden Keefe
Trinity - Leon Uris
Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors - James Hornfischer
Washington - Ron Chernow
Slaughterhouse Five - Kurt Vonnegut
1984 - Orwell
Twilight of the Gods: War in the Western Pacific, 1944-45 - Ian A. Toll
As much as 2020 has been generally sucked I've been happy to have been able to get a fair amount of reading done. Currently reading "Rampage: MacArthur, Yamashita, and the Battle of Manila", by James M. Scott at the suggestion of one Dan Carlin and so far it has not disappointed.
Fantastic list. I’d skip Brown’s Bury My Heart...too self-loathing and mendacious. If you want a hint at his better writing style read his “Galvanized Yankees.” If you are looking for a great lead in to the late Indian Wars period read “The Dull Knifes of Pine Ridge.”
Blood Meridian is a fantastic book. And totally insane. I find it amazing that a few attempts have been made to turn it into a movie and the story is just too crazy and bloody for hollywood to touch.
Lots of other good reads on that list. Certainly a good year!
Cormac McCarthy is the monster under every grown man's bed.
For sure. All of his books are great and I highly recommend them all.
The Road still shakes me up. That reminds me...I need more ammo for the Griz-O-Bunker!
And captives so you can eat them later? Mmm...long pig.
For those who may have only read The Road since it's McCarthy's most recent work, it pales in comparison to Blood Meridian.
Also, if you need musical accompaniment whilst reading Blood Meridian, may I recommend Ben Nichol's "last pale light in the west." It's a concept album based on characters and scenarios from Blood Meridian.
Got turned onto "bury my heart" at the beginning of the year because I finished up a couple books about Custer and Crazy Horse right at the end of last year. Overall I don't disagree with your take.