What happens after a "NAMI-whammy"?

[nfo2b]

I'm a 29 year old STA-21 NFO option, graduating in August of '06. During my initial Flight Physical (during my STA-21 app process), I was diagnosed with kerataconus of my left eye. Well, okay, this wasn't when I was diagnosed, it was actually several years earlier in my naval career, so it was already in my medical record. But the Flight Surgeon determined that I was within waiverable limits, and thus cleared me. However, kerataconus can be progressive, and is very unpredictable. (Kerataconus (KC) is a condition in which the surface of the cornea thins out, causing a somewhat conical shape, leading to astigmatism in the affected eye. Due to this thinning, it is not correctable by any currently FDA approved surgical procedures. Its cause is as uncertain as its prognosis--it may grow worse, it may not--it's entirely unpredictable) In the 5 or 6 years between my initial diagnosis and my Flight Physical, there was little progression. However, due to the unpredictable nature of the condition, I'm concerned about its future impact on my NFO career. So let me pose my primary question to you with this hypothetical situation: Suppose I get my wings, and a few years later, I get "NAMI-whammied" due to my KC. What are my options? Will they park my old going-blind butt behind a desk for what's left of my career? Will they "downsize" me out of the Navy? Is a lateral transfer to something else (SWO, Nuke, etc) an option? Is this type of thing considered to be a "career killer"? I'm looking to pick the brains of all of the salty aviators here that may shed some light on things for me. Even though I still have a year and a half to go before I'm even commissioned, I'm bringing this up now because it could affect a very important decision that I may need to make before commissioning--wether to stay with the NFO option, or pursue another community (and yes, STA-21'ers, this CAN be done). Because if the dreaded NAMI-whammy can indeed torpedo my career as a Naval Officer, then I may want to avoid going that route, if you know what I mean.

Some related questions...
Are hard contacts allowed in any airframe, or while in flight status? (This is the best corrective method currently available for KC)
What is the current age-waiver limit for aviators? (yes I'm old, but last time I checked, the requirement was that you must be commissioned prior to age 32 after the active duty waiver)

Thanks!

 

[bch]

The "Nammy Whammy" when you first get down to API is what I am familiar with...
I have seen guys (pilots) get it, and a couple of things happened...

-got switched to NFO
-Got sent SWO
-Got the boot from the navy.

I know one pilot who got NPQ'd during his initial sea tour with an HSL sqd. I believe he became an aviation maintance officer following the NPQ.

I know you are asking about FO's but this is all the info I have, I honestly don't know any FO's who got NPQ'd

 

[nfo2b]

I honestly don't know any FO's who got NPQ'd

This raises another question that I've often wondered about: If FO's pretty much keep their eyes glued to some sort of electronic display 18 inches in front of them, why are the visual acuity requirements nearly that of pilots? I realize that on some platforms (i.e. -14's, 2-seat -18's, EA-6B's, et al.), a FO may have to look out the window to spot other aircraft or incoming missiles and the like, but what about the -6B B/N's, E-2/P-3 FO's that rarely, if ever, have to look at something outside the canopy to save the plane/crew? And how flexible is NAMI with FO's visual acuities, anyways? I forget the actual waiver limits, can someone refresh my memory?
Thanks again.

 

[virtu050]

i dunno where u get FO's visual requirements are nearly that of pilots.

 

[zab1001]

This raises another question that I've often wondered about: If FO's pretty much keep their eyes glued to some sort of electronic display 18 inches in front of them, why are the visual acuity requirements nearly that of pilots? I realize that on some platforms (i.e. -14's, 2-seat -18's, EA-6B's, et al.), a FO may have to look out the window to spot other aircraft or incoming missiles and the like, but what about the -6B B/N's, E-2/P-3 FO's that rarely, if ever, have to look at something outside the canopy to save the plane/crew? And how flexible is NAMI with FO's visual acuities, anyways? I forget the actual waiver limits, can someone refresh my memory?
Thanks again.

First of all, look at the canopy on a Prowler, I think ea6bflyer and flash can attest that there is plenty of glass to see through.

E-2 tube guys had BETTER have a good picture of whats going on, with all that gear and all.

I've had NFOs on a P-3 call out traffic to me plenty of times.

Second, remember, FO's don't just jump into their Fleet warplane from day one, they spend plenty of time in smaller aircraft at training airfields, where there's plenty of wackiness in the pattern and in the MOA's to see and report.

FO=Aircrew member

Therefore he/she has to maintain an inside/outside scan a much as cockpit/station duties allow. An E-6 FO naturally does not have the "outside picture ability" of say, and F-14 RIO (you know, bulkheads vs. windows and all), but if you are a FO in the plane, you are expected to watch for traffic as much as possible. It's your a$$ on the line as well. hopefully i made SOME sense with all that...

 

[VetteMuscle427]

i dunno where u get FO's visual requirements are nearly that of pilots.

I'm 20/400 w/o glasses... they let me in.

 

[bcw]

I got the Nami-whammi. I was sent home. Yeah, it really sucks when it happens to you. I wish all of you guys the best of luck. Just remember, always have a back up plan.

 

[nfo2b]

I got the Nami-whammi. I was sent home. Yeah, it really sucks when it happens to you. I wish all of you guys the best of luck. Just remember, always have a back up plan.

bcw, was your for your eyes? Because if they let VetteMuscle be an NFO with 20/400, then it seems that your must be damn near blind to get Whammied as a FO.
VetteMuscle, what is your vision corrected? If they can get 20/400 down to 20/20, I'm impressed!

i dunno where u get FO's visual requirements are nearly that of pilots.

Well, my statement was only half-right, so I'll clarify--both pilot and fo must be correctable to 20/20. No exceptions. This is the basis for my original statement. However, I guess it's important that I note that only pilots have "uncorrected" acuity limits. But I guess this is all moot now anyways, since my question has been answered by a couple of the other posts here which helped to clarify, at least in my mind, the responsibilities of FO's outside of their 'puter screens. (And remember, I'm not knocking FO's with the "'puter screen" comments--I'm NFO option!). With my disgustingly limited knowledge of the whole NFO world, and their specific responsibities inside the various airframes, I was making some bad assumptions. But my original conundrum still stands--do I stay NFO and risk getting my career cut off at the knees a few years into it, while hoping that my eyes don't ever disqualify me, or do I bail out now and switch over to the security of a community that will never dump me for poor eyesight. Believe me, I really want to go NFO, but I have a family and a long-term career to worry about. I'm a risk taker when it comes to situations that involve risk only to myself, but when it comes to my family, I don't like to take those kinds of chances.
Okay, one more question: Do you guys think that my age (31 at time of commissioning) will put me at a serious competitive disadvantage when it comes to any stage of flight school, and beyond? I'm in good physical shape (outstanding low on my last 3 prt's), but let's face it--while I'm still 22 in heart and mind, my body just isn't.
Thanks again for all of the great feedback!

 

[Sabre170]

NFOtoB,

I am 31 now and am selected to go OCS in January with a NFO contract...

I look at it like this. You could forgo your NFO contract and try supply or another community, but what if you eyes never get any worse? Will you be happy with another option?

I read a book once that qouted several people who were on the death beds. One qoute was from an old man who said... "He wished he would have taken more risks in life" Another said he spent half of his life afraid of things that never happened.

I took that to heart. I do not want to miss out on stuff because of what might happen. I go for what I want to do (with my family's blessing of course). I take risks. I enjoy the challenge of striving to succeed. If you have a plan great go for it, but in my experience if someone has two plans, A and B then plan A never gets 100% effort. there is always the thought well if this doean't work I can try this or go this route... do understand what I am saying. Pick a route that you and your family can live with and go for 100% If it doesn't work out then decide on what to do, but if you live your life around what MIGHT happen, you might always second guessing yourself.

 

[jg5343]

Sorry to thread jack, but what date in January, Sabre? Can't find anyone else that is January 8th. Might be a class of 2!

 

[nfo2b]

Sounds like you and I are alot alike, Sabre, philosophically at least. However, for the time being, I'm setting the philosophical questions of risk vs. career security aside, and just trying to get some solid info on the "what if's". I'm trying to sort through all of the "I've heard's" and get some real info from people in the know, and I've got alot of "I've heard"s. Like I've heard of NAMI Whammies getting officers booted from the Navy, I've heard that I can just lateral transfer, etc. etc. I know this may sound contradictory to my nature, since like you, I usually set my sights on something, and shoot for that, analyzing and facing the risks as I go, in this case, I cannot just blindly follow my ambitions. This situation is much too big for that kind of blind ambition. Like I said a couple of posts up, is following this NFO dream worth risking killing my career a few years into it, wether by being relegated to driving a desk, lateral transfering to some crap job like supply (no offence, suppo's), or worst case, discharge from Naval service? Because those things are all distinct possibilities, if I follow the path I'm on. So that's what I'm trying to glean here--what exactly are the risks and possible consequences? If I deem them to be acceptable and manageable, then I will continue the path I'm on (to NFO). However, if a DIW (dead in the water) career is a definite possibility, then I may not wish to go that route. Yes, NFO is my dream. But at the heart of that dream is the ambition and desire to be an Officer in the U.S. Navy for as long as they'll let me serve. And if that means, God forbid, giving up NFO for SWO Nuke or something (which wouldn't be nearly as miserable as many of you seem to think--believe me, I know--I'm ex-Nuke enlisted for 10+ years), then that may be the path I must take.
For now, I'll continue to seek hard information and objective opinions, such as yours, Sabre, and put it all together. I've got time to decide. And ultimately, the decision will be between me and God.
Once more, thanks for the valuable input.

 

[bch]

once you are winged it is a lot harder for them to get rid of you... typically they will work more with keeping a winged dude med up than a student.

 

[CLAM97to99]

If you get droped because of the "NAMI-whammy" what are the chances of getting a lateral transfer?

 

[Scamahmrd]

Just to add on to Clam's question, how about a transfer to the Marine Corps or the Army. Those would be my first choices if I get down to Pensacola and get the "Namy Whammy." I know that the Army is taking people left and right, but how about the Marines? Would I get to go to OCS? Would I have a break in service. I know those are questions that are probably unaswerable until someone tries it, but if anyone has any experience, your comments would be great.

 

[bch]

Just to add on to Clam's question, how about a transfer to the Marine Corps or the Army. Those would be my first choices if I get down to Pensacola and get the "Namy Whammy." I know that the Army is taking people left and right, but how about the Marines? Would I get to go to OCS? Would I have a break in service. I know those are questions that are probably unaswerable until someone tries it, but if anyone has any experience, your comments would be great.

not sure about the army, but the marine corps is part of the deptarment of the navy, and is still considered Naval Aviation.... therfore, NOMI requirements are still the same. If you get NPQ'd from the navy, the corps is not gonna take you either.