Old 46D Crewchief 90-93. Now the black bus. Bigger doesn't always equate to better...if you were wondering.
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Who are our phrog pilots out there?
- Thread starter KnightNArmor
- Start date
And that's the reality of practical engineering. You can pay an a$$ton of money to get a perfect product, which will be way behind timeline and probably obsolete by the time you get it.... or.... the realistic engineering solution is something that works, but might be flawed or imperfect. Guess which way they teach at engineering schools....
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
GMI teaches strive for #1, but realize when #2 will meet the need.
Writing realistic specs helps too. Marketing / Styling ALWAYS will promise/design stuff that cannot be delivered:
As fast as they want it
As cheap as they need it
That can be reasonably produced in time.
Writing realistic specs helps too. Marketing / Styling ALWAYS will promise/design stuff that cannot be delivered:
As fast as they want it
As cheap as they need it
That can be reasonably produced in time.
Yep, realistic engineering.
The common mantra at my school was "MIT will find the perfect solution, but it will take too long and cost too much. You'll be taught to find the solution that works."
Sometimes you need and want that perfect solution.... a lot of the times it's not practical.
Stubby
Ask the Chief
Thought you guys could appreciate this...
I got this photo in my e-mail not to long ago; I thought you all would be able to appreciate it...
If you don't think our military pilots earn their pay ... you need to take a look at this picture .. and then look again and realize what you're seeing ...
This photo was taken by a soldier in Afghanistan of a helo rescue mission. The pilot is a PA Guard guy who flies EMS choppers in civilian life. Now how many people on the planet you reckon could set the ass end of a chopper down on the roof top of a shack on a steep mountain cliff and hold it there while soldiers load wounded men in the rear??? If this does not impress you ... nothing ever will. Gives me the chills and a serious case of the vertigo ... I can't even imagine having the nerve ... much less the talent and ability ... God Bless our military!!!!!
I got this photo in my e-mail not to long ago; I thought you all would be able to appreciate it...
If you don't think our military pilots earn their pay ... you need to take a look at this picture .. and then look again and realize what you're seeing ...
This photo was taken by a soldier in Afghanistan of a helo rescue mission. The pilot is a PA Guard guy who flies EMS choppers in civilian life. Now how many people on the planet you reckon could set the ass end of a chopper down on the roof top of a shack on a steep mountain cliff and hold it there while soldiers load wounded men in the rear??? If this does not impress you ... nothing ever will. Gives me the chills and a serious case of the vertigo ... I can't even imagine having the nerve ... much less the talent and ability ... God Bless our military!!!!!
Attachments
It's called a pinnacle landing and it's NOT the the most difficult thing to do - especially if you have a decent crewman giving you good voice commands on the position of the ass end of the aircraft. The Phrog and Chinook excel at this kind of thing and from a piloting perspective it's one of the features of the aircraft design that make this pretty routine.
It looks way more dramatic than it really is, trust me.
It looks way more dramatic than it really is, trust me.
It may look more dramatic... but for someone like me who doesn't do them very often and is still learning the techniques... it's still a hair raising, stomach turning event.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I agree - not very difficult. Depending on how high the peak is, can be taxing hovering the nose that long... I got a bunch of flak from the guys in the battalion when they saw that picture, told me that I couldn't do that in a Phrog. Then I showed them a picture of me doing it in Albania on a huge cliff...
Oh, and in case you were curious, Phrog pilot that's trying to transition to the Coast Guard...
I know that we train for pinnacle landings... but how often do we actually do them... I'd love to hear some stories about those...
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Do you mean in order to accomplish the mission? I used to do them every chance I got for a photo op, but have only done them a sum total of twice for mission accomplishment.
The first time was in Albania, the zone was just large enough to land a Phrog, but the winds did not support landing long axis. By landing short axis, there was very little room so we decided that doing a pinnacle would be the best idea. Did the pinnacle, grunts got off, and we flew back to the boat. No big deal.
The other time was in Yuma, again zone big enough for one Phrog. Again, winds only supported the short axis of the zone. This time the zone was outside our cross-slope limit (no, I didn't measure, but three attempts at the zone convinced me). So, I came into the little (and level) ridge that was just in front of the zone, did a Pinnacle and lowered the ramp. This time, the guys in back didn't think that we had landed and refused to get off. The crewchiefs had to "persuade them" that we were in fact on the ground.
I've attempted a couple in Yuma so as to not make the TACP team have to hump up the mountain, but it was a little too craggly up there... And the grunts say the assault support pilots don't love them...
Buddy of mine did an extract in Afghanistan using a pinnacle landing. The peak I went to didn't even allow that--we had to use the hoist.
Fast
High-Quality
Cheap
Pick two...
High-Quality
Cheap
Pick two...
So what works and what doesn't anymore on the Phrog?
So what still works with the mighty Phrog in the Sandbox? Where does your machine beat out the "me too" sky full of H-60's? How have the incremental improvements in the H-46E platform made for a more combat worthy ship?
Would enjoy hearing some perspective from guys/gals flying the Phrog day in and day out.
Thanks!
So what still works with the mighty Phrog in the Sandbox? Where does your machine beat out the "me too" sky full of H-60's? How have the incremental improvements in the H-46E platform made for a more combat worthy ship?
- GPS?
- Electronic HSI?
- COMM/NAV CDU
- Lightweight Armor
- Bull Frog Fuel stub-wings
- Gold Stripe T-58-16 engine reliability upgrades
- Dynamic component improvements
- Simula aircrew seats (has this made it to the fleet?)
Would enjoy hearing some perspective from guys/gals flying the Phrog day in and day out.
Thanks!
The CNCS (GPS, COMM) and Bullphrog mods have been around so long, no one here will probably know the difference.