Why USMC using obsolete M-16 in Iraq?

[Lawman]

Its got a decent theory behind it. In an enviroment where you need a pistol caliber or your one of those poor bastards in a department whos city doesnt believe they need rifles in the hands of Police, it has all the things you'd want a rifle caliber for but not be able to use it.

I kinda dont like the idea of Pistol Caliber *I.E. 9mm and .40 cal ect* carbines and rifles. My school of thought was, when you go to your long guns its because you need your long guns capability. Ive got a handgun on my belt, I dont need a handgun on steroids I need a friggen rifle. Im kinda indiffernt to the P90, I just want one because they look wicked and the bullet does a lot of neat things. But then again I may fire one, and hate the crap out of it. We will see.

Personally Ive always been a fan of shorty shotguns and a good backup sidearm.

 

[Blutonski816]

The only people that say our military should carry them are Counter-Strike players.

Don't forget the Stargate people...

But I agree with you, I'd much rather Carry an M4...

 

[squeeze]

overpenetration by .223 is blown way out of proportion. multiple tests have shown that 9mm, 40, 45, and 12ga slugs all penetrate on average more than a 55gr 5.56 round in a CQB-like environment.

 

[Fly Navy]

Its got a decent theory behind it. In an enviroment where you need a pistol caliber or your one of those poor bastards in a department whos city doesnt believe they need rifles in the hands of Police, it has all the things you'd want a rifle caliber for but not be able to use it.

I kinda dont like the idea of Pistol Caliber *I.E. 9mm and .40 cal ect* carbines and rifles. My school of thought was, when you go to your long guns its because you need your long guns capability. Ive got a handgun on my belt, I dont need a handgun on steroids I need a friggen rifle. Im kinda indiffernt to the P90, I just want one because they look wicked and the bullet does a lot of neat things. But then again I may fire one, and hate the crap out of it. We will see.

Personally Ive always been a fan of shorty shotguns and a good backup sidearm.

Like I said, I don't agree with the theory. Doesn't mean it isn't right... I just don't buy into it. Not saying I don't want a P90 though I think it'd be cool as crap to own one. Just wouldn't trust my life with it.

Who doesn't love a shotgun?

 

[Lawman]

overpenetration by .223 is blown way out of proportion. multiple tests have shown that 9mm, 40, 45, and 12ga slugs all penetrate on average more than a 55gr 5.56 round in a CQB-like environment.

Im talking about through walls and barriers. When a 5.56 TAP round hits a person at say 20-30 feet it actually shatters, which makes for a really neat wounding pattern. But it will buzzsaw right through an exterior wall of most houses and still have a good chance to penetrate armor, kinda crappy if your the officer outside the back door and rounds start zipping through the house... and then you.

The one thing that is awesome about the 5.56 though is penetration through barriers when you want it, like windshield glass or a car door.

 

[Fly Navy]

Im talking about through walls and barriers.

That's what Squeeze was refering to, I believe. 9mm will slam right through walls with ease. Drywall is no match for bullets.

 

[Lawman]

Id really like to test out several weapons in the low cost housing they are building right now all over the city. After seeing them go from foundation to done, I dont think they'd stand up to much of a wind storm let alone gun fire.

 

[Fly Navy]

Id really like to test out several weapons in the low cost housing they are building right now all over the city. After seeing them go from foundation to done, I dont think they'd stand up to much of a wind storm let alone gun fire.

No kidding. Construction today sometimes doesn't match up with how they used to build stuff. Some of the houses I see erected are shameful.

 

[Lawman]

You could never actually build one of these houses up in the "snowbelt" where I normally live. They dont even have exterior wall insulation, just a fiberfoam mesh board that has an R rating of something like 6. And you can kick the doors open without much, then again considering the people were giving these houses too, thats probably just convenient for when the PD needs to go serve a warrant.

 

[Fly Navy]

You could never actually build one of these houses up in the "snowbelt" where I normally live. They dont even have exterior wall insulation, just a fiberfoam mesh board that has an R rating of something like 6. And you can kick the doors open without much, then again considering the people were giving these houses too, thats probably just convenient for when the PD needs to go serve a warrant.

Yep, houses are just better built up North. That's what it seems like anyway.

 

[Ryoukai]

^...Just what are you trying to say about my house?

 

[squeeze]

Im talking about through walls and barriers. When a 5.56 TAP round hits a person at say 20-30 feet it actually shatters, which makes for a really neat wounding pattern. But it will buzzsaw right through an exterior wall of most houses and still have a good chance to penetrate armor, kinda crappy if your the officer outside the back door and rounds start zipping through the house... and then you.

The one thing that is awesome about the 5.56 though is penetration through barriers when you want it, like windshield glass or a car door.

http://www.olyarms.com/?page=223articles

 

[Fly Navy]

Good stuff.

I point here too: http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

All you could EVER want to know about 5.56x45mm and .223 Remington

 

[theduke]

i keep hearing speculation that the Marines are gonna get rid of the Beretta. The two candidates for replacement i keep hearing are the SIG P226 or a return to the 1911. I've owned a P226, and i currently own a Springfield 1911 (stainless loaded model), and like both of those pistols WAY more than the ol' 92FS.

the only problem is that neither of them are, in their current forms, ambidextrous like the Beretta. i also wonder if the USMC would have safety concerns, with the SIG having no external safety, and the 1911 either being carried "cocked & locked" or without a round chambered. none of those concerns really bother me, but i'm a right handed shooter who's very familiar with firearms.

anyone heard any confirmation of these rumors?

 

[Fly Navy]

the only problem is that neither of them are, in their current forms, ambidextrous like the Beretta. i also wonder if the USMC would have safety concerns, with the SIG having no external safety, and the 1911 either being carried "cocked & locked" or without a round chambered. none of those concerns really bother me, but i'm a right handed shooter who's very familiar with firearms.

Funny story... in 1986 when they were selecting the pistol to replace the 1911, both the SIG P226 and the Beretta 92 were the final selection. The ONLY reason the Beretta won over the SIG was because Beretta offered them a slightly lower cost of production. When Berettas started having catastrophic failures due to the higher pressure loads that Navy SEALs were using, resulting in deaths, the SEALs threw the Beretta away and moved to the SIG P226, which was already designed to handle those loads. Beretta fixed itself, but the SEALs never went back.

Only a moron or someone extremely anal needs an external safety on a SIG P226. Unfortunately, the military is a bit of both sometimes.

The 1911 was carried cocked and locked, round in the chamber, for almost a century. Not an issue.