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You thought Berkley was bad?
- Thread starter HighDimension
- Start date
Doesn't seem nearly as bad as Berkley. I see it as perfectly legit to not want Marines running around shooting blanks, etc. inside a city.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
He also offered other places for the Marines to train.
I can see why their mayor wouldn't want that type of thing going down on short notice but it doesn't sound like this sort of thing was slapped together a weekend before the Marines were supposed to show up. Give people enough notice and it probably doesn't induce mass panic, even when blanks are being fired.
The best (and only) quote I've ever heard about Toledo:
"Men, only two times other than the Civil War have states gone to war with one another. The first was fought between Michigan and Ohio over the city of Toledo. Michigan probably won because I can't think of a reason anyone would fight to keep Toledo." -Lou Holtz
The best (and only) quote I've ever heard about Toledo:
"Men, only two times other than the Civil War have states gone to war with one another. The first was fought between Michigan and Ohio over the city of Toledo. Michigan probably won because I can't think of a reason anyone would fight to keep Toledo." -Lou Holtz
My brother is in that unit. The country and those Marines lose because of sour grapes between the mayor and chief of police. He should have let them train this last time and effectively communicated his position within his city government to ensure they didn't come back again. Isn't there a city council to decide this sort of thing?
I don't know how this is playing in Ohio, but I would think any political hack could see this sort crap doesn't result in good press.
Did anybody read the message board below the link? My Favorite:
How can anybody be so stupid NOT TO SEE why this is a bad idea. NEVER, EVER should our military train in OUR cities to learn how to KILL US!!! Tell me I'm a crazy conspiracy freak and I'll point out HUNDREDS of similar experiences, in my training as a Marine, where schools and small cities have been used. We all swear to kill our own countrymen if called to do so.
I don't know how this is playing in Ohio, but I would think any political hack could see this sort crap doesn't result in good press.
Did anybody read the message board below the link? My Favorite:
How can anybody be so stupid NOT TO SEE why this is a bad idea. NEVER, EVER should our military train in OUR cities to learn how to KILL US!!! Tell me I'm a crazy conspiracy freak and I'll point out HUNDREDS of similar experiences, in my training as a Marine, where schools and small cities have been used. We all swear to kill our own countrymen if called to do so.
Im for one surprised they were gonna do it in Toledo. Being from Dayton we got used to the Marines showing up ever year or two for a week and doing their urban training here. I doubt it would be much of a problem for the Marines to find another city willing to have them.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Dayton, OH. Home of Wright-Patterson AFB and my home-away-from-home for about 2 weeks when we did TRUEX as the ACE for the 26 MEU in 2002. I apologize for the quality of two of the pics, I can't find the originals and pulled them out of a .MPG. I remember there was an editorial/article in the local paper that was protesting our impending arrival, but once we got there - nothing but a warm welcome. Although I did cause at least two traffic accidents. I wish I still had a copy of the political cartoon that was a H-60 hovering over a Pizza Joint. That hit the paper a day or two after my CO sent his AO into Wendy's (the zone we landed in was right next door) to get a ton of burgers for everyone. Good memories. Screw Toledo - go to Dayton!
Nice pics! Thats a fly-over, Phrog style, no?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Nah, you should know that Phrogs are like Mopeds and Fat Chicks. And for the record, I don't care what my friends think!
Actually it was the first couple of days in Dayton. Day area fams/cals. We landed in LZ's all around the city. Created at least two accidents that day. First one was in the zone with the American Flag off our nose. Someone saw us (I was in Dash 2) as we were landing, and slowed WAY down to watch. Someone else apparently wasn't paying attention, and slammed into the back of them. Both were outside their cars, mouth agape as we took off. Second accident was as I was short, short final to an LZ (that was a parking lot), some minivan weaved passed the cones (I guess no one told her). She looks over to her left and sees us (just as we're pulling power to waveoff, we were about 50-75 feet), slams it in reverse and backs out into traffic. Many laughs were had by all!
God help me, but I have to take the Mayor's side in this one. If my desk job from hell has taught me anything, it's that it is IMPOSSIBLE to plan or publicize an event (big or small, and MarineEX in your town qualifies as FRIGGIN' HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE) enough to avoid a mountain of problems.
Better to cancel an event that's not properly planned (and take the hit in the press) than to allow it to move forward with the resultant consequences.
Case in point:
I'd say the Mayor just saved the Corps from a bunch of headlines like:
Marines cause mass hysteria in downtown Toledo!
- Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together also witnessed.
Better to cancel an event that's not properly planned (and take the hit in the press) than to allow it to move forward with the resultant consequences.
Case in point:
...and Dayton sees it every few years and these things STILL happen. Now imagine what happens in a city that hasn't seen it before.
I'd say the Mayor just saved the Corps from a bunch of headlines like:
Marines cause mass hysteria in downtown Toledo!
- Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together also witnessed.
They did the same excercise last year in Toledo. Disaster and hysteria free.
From the article: “The Marines drilled here three times during the Ford administration and once under the Finkbeiner administration. After the last visit, the mayor told then police Chief Jack Smith, that he did not want the marines back. Smith failed to inform the current police administration of the mayor’s feelings,” Schwartz said.
From the article: “The Marines drilled here three times during the Ford administration and once under the Finkbeiner administration. After the last visit, the mayor told then police Chief Jack Smith, that he did not want the marines back. Smith failed to inform the current police administration of the mayor’s feelings,” Schwartz said.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I agree. TRUEX is a very well planned event, and is publicized in the local media (TV, Radio, and print) for MONTHS leading up to it. The planning involved includes representatives of the local government, police, fire, FAA, and the USMC. They know we're coming, at least in theory. That's why we're only allowed to fly certain routes, and land in certain LZ's. The buildings we use for urban ops are abandoned, or are volunteered by the owners. Most of them are in the slums (case in point - on a night fam, the Hueys came back with Star Saphire tape of what we think was a drug deal going down. We got to watch them scatter like cockroaches when the skids flew over, my guess is they thought it was a police helicopter), and for the larger portions of the exercise (not the fam portion), the cops & fire deparment are there doing crowd control. We also make it a point to do a lot of public affairs type stuff along the way, landing and shutting down at local schools, etc... Yet - there's still some people that don't get the memo or are pissed off that we're there, and the press (even though they know about it) would always come up with something to write that was negative about what we were doing.
If this level of coordination is not present, then it would be logical why a local government would be hesitant to sponsor our training. We do the same sort of thing in Yuma during WTI and Desert Talon. My guess is that since they see it 2-4 times per year, that they're aren't as surprised when it does happen. Plus, all the LZ's are generally on the outskirts of town and are HIGHLY controlled by the cops. I do find it amazing that the "tribal leaders" are always having "meetings" at one of the local strip clubs (at least that's the scenario, and the LZ is right next door)...
Correction, my previous post was incorrect in that A Co. 1/24 didn't drill in Toledo last year as they were deployed. It was the year before.
I can understand and agree with the posts above regarding large scale excercises in civilian cities. However in this case there were no air assets, just 1 infantry company, a few humvees, and three tour buses they rode down there on. The excercise was scheduled for one day, a saturday. It really doesn't sound all that disruptive.
I can understand and agree with the posts above regarding large scale excercises in civilian cities. However in this case there were no air assets, just 1 infantry company, a few humvees, and three tour buses they rode down there on. The excercise was scheduled for one day, a saturday. It really doesn't sound all that disruptive.