Why say that?
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You're Doing It Wrong (Civilian-Military Relations, that is)
- Thread starter squorch2
- Start date
Why say that?
zoomie08
Fast, Neat, Average...
What Flash said.
And, what possible evidence do you have to support that besides Limbaugh? Were you an insider in the campaign?
I am by no means saying they were perfectly honest. I do, however, think you should be able to back up whatever you say.
I won't lie, I came into this topic expecting some sort of dating story. 
I won't lie, I came into this topic expecting some sort of dating story.
ahahaha :icon_lol:
^^^^^
Take a look at the promises and statements made, particularly in the area of foreign affairs.
Because it is true.
Okay, what are you talking about specifically?
Are they more or less naive and ignorant than those who tried to remake the Middle East into a democratic nirvana?
Really? That's it?
Who tried that?
Flash,
If you can call Obama's plan to withdraw "16 brigades in 16 months" anything other than naive, then it's a total non-starter. He went public with that plan after going to Iraq and meeting with staff there, what..once?
A totally linear withdraw plan? Are you serious?
I can understand and forgive ignorance and naivete. The problem is that Candidate Obama spoke with as much authority on military and security issues as RickRoss did on Naval Aviation. He wants to get out of Iraq? OK, fine. As CIC it is under his authority to make that order. Trying to say that he knows the exact orders and schedule that he is going to do it under is f'ing fantasy and smacks of not only ignorance, but the kind of arrogant ignorance that is dangerous. All he had to say that it was going to be his goal to get out of Iraq "In an orderly and safe manner that ensure stability and be dictated by the fluid situation on the ground in the region." That would be a responsible way to articulate the situation. That's not what he was trying to do though, he wanted all of his followers to think that he has everything figured out and he is the all-knowing, got it all figured leader that they have been longing for. I guess he won the election though, never mind the way he communicated his plans were Iraq were naive, and irresponsible. I think that he has learned that lesson because he has backed off his campaign position.
Your position is totally stupid Flash. Obama had spent 20 years as a social worker in Chicago. How could anyone expect him to know anything about how the military worked. His entire job description consisted of greasing the political skids in Chi-Town politics FOR TWO DECADES. I understand that you are defending Obama out of principal, but this is one of the least defensible of many of your outlandish liberal diatribes.
If you can call Obama's plan to withdraw "16 brigades in 16 months" anything other than naive, then it's a total non-starter. He went public with that plan after going to Iraq and meeting with staff there, what..once?
A totally linear withdraw plan? Are you serious?
I can understand and forgive ignorance and naivete. The problem is that Candidate Obama spoke with as much authority on military and security issues as RickRoss did on Naval Aviation. He wants to get out of Iraq? OK, fine. As CIC it is under his authority to make that order. Trying to say that he knows the exact orders and schedule that he is going to do it under is f'ing fantasy and smacks of not only ignorance, but the kind of arrogant ignorance that is dangerous. All he had to say that it was going to be his goal to get out of Iraq "In an orderly and safe manner that ensure stability and be dictated by the fluid situation on the ground in the region." That would be a responsible way to articulate the situation. That's not what he was trying to do though, he wanted all of his followers to think that he has everything figured out and he is the all-knowing, got it all figured leader that they have been longing for. I guess he won the election though, never mind the way he communicated his plans were Iraq were naive, and irresponsible. I think that he has learned that lesson because he has backed off his campaign position.
Your position is totally stupid Flash. Obama had spent 20 years as a social worker in Chicago. How could anyone expect him to know anything about how the military worked. His entire job description consisted of greasing the political skids in Chi-Town politics FOR TWO DECADES. I understand that you are defending Obama out of principal, but this is one of the least defensible of many of your outlandish liberal diatribes.
As usual, and I am not surprised, you are keeping the maturity level of your arguments very high.
I am surprised that you can ascertain Flash's "position" on this topic from a total of two posts that contain 5 questions. In fact, he hasn't posted a single sentence that isn't a question in this thread.
How is it naive if he is the one that can order it? If he wants to do it the military will follow, whether they are happy with it or not. He will compromise because of the realities on the ground and I think he will listen to his military advisors who are urging more caution. But he made a promise and I believe he intends to generally keep it, look for the vast bulk of US troops to be withdrawn from Iraq by the next election. PRT's, trainers, support types and a small number of combat troops will probably remain, but the vast majority will likely be gone unless there is another spasm of violence. Specifics or not, if the bulk of troops are gone people will think he has kept his promise.
Our history is chock full of President's and other leaders who have little or no military experience but have led this country sucessfully through wars. Conversely we have had leaders with military experience that have not done so good during war or other conflict.
If you really think that I am just making 'outlandish liberal diatribes' you are more ignorant and simple-minded than I thought.
Whoa, chill guys. Go listen to some Jack Johnson and mellow out or something.
The difference between then and now is that when...say...FDR was in office the other side was the "loyal opposition." I don't like what happened on election day or on the 20th of January, but it happened. Bitching at each other and stressing out about it isn't going to change that.
The best thing you can do now is try to be open-minded and wait to see what happens. Remember, it could ALWAYS be worse.
The difference between then and now is that when...say...FDR was in office the other side was the "loyal opposition." I don't like what happened on election day or on the 20th of January, but it happened. Bitching at each other and stressing out about it isn't going to change that.
The best thing you can do now is try to be open-minded and wait to see what happens. Remember, it could ALWAYS be worse.
Specifically, for starters, Obama's positions on Iraq. And no one tried to make the Middle East into a democratic nirvana. The last administration realized that something needed to change in that region, or there would be disastrous consequences.
Many chuckles here. Google "PNAC" for some fun times.