NEWS RIP Beards and thiccbois

[FLGUY]

Of all the things we could be focusing on to improve quality of life, increase retention and recruiting, and deliver the much needed capability to the warfighter... this policy done none of those things.

An overweight Chief doesn't determine whether I come home from a peer conflict or not.

Making an E3 shave his beard won't fix our crumbling base infrastructure, or provide me with the sensors, weapons, killchains, and capabilities we need to win in 2027.

This is yet another example of how our "warfighter" policies are really meant to win points on Fox News, continue the overt politicization of what is supposed to be a non-political and nonpartisan organization, and ultimately will not meaningfully increase combat readiness or our ability to win the next conflict.

While I understand your sentiment, it’s not like the DoD can’t do multiple things at once. This may be at the front of everybody’s psyche because of how the current administration loves feeding the news machine, but it’s like not like that came at the cost of acquisitions, RnD and overall force effectiveness. I’m sure NAWDC and NAVAIR, CNIC, and the like are still in pursuit of those goals.

 

[CommodoreMid]

That was 40 years ago, and it was largely based on years and years of research conducted by the DoD since the first PRT standards in 1986 along with the integration of women:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA375322.pdf

I think we know more about fitness today than we did in 1998. Besides, the passing score for the run is the same and pushups is only marginally different than it was in 1986 (42 vs 35). Now we have planks, which is easier to pass than situps, plus a slew of alternate cardio options that become easier to pass when you weigh more.

Alternate cardio has been around since I was a midshipman in 2004, albeit we weren’t allowed to do it in NROTC. Not a new phenomenon. And if you read that study standards for women are much higher now compared to the increase for men.

On the plank piece, honestly curious what the scores trends have looked like since implementation compared to sit ups. I have a long torso so I always sucked at sit-ups, but I have a lot of willpower so I can plank all day. My squadron had a mock PRT yesterday and interestingly enough a lot of people were talking about how they wished they could go back to sit-ups. I was also one of the last ones standing (horizontal?) on the plank.

 

[robav8r]

Maybe we can waive the PRT and allow beards for units that win the Battle E.

 

[Bad_Karma_1310]

While I understand your sentiment, it’s not like the DoD can’t do multiple things at once. This may be at the front of everybody’s psyche because of how the current administration loves feeding the news machine, but it’s like not like that came at the cost of acquisitions, RnD and overall force effectiveness. I’m sure NAWDC and NAVAIR, CNIC, and the like are still in pursuit of those goals.

It just comes at the cost of increasing sailors dissatisfaction with the Navy at the time we are facing a manning crisis.

Let’s wait till we are at a point when we aren’t being forced to limit sorties due to a undermanned maintenance department before implementing policies that worsen sailor’s quality of life.

Edit: not to mention this is going to be one of the policies used to go after women in combat roles. Dating the memo as review going back to 2015 gives that game away.

 

[taxi1]

Maybe we can waive the PRT and allow beards for units that win the Battle E.

Sounds like a winner.

When my father was in VX-6 deploying to Antarctica, they could grow beards while "on the ice".

 

[ChuckMK23]

I’ve watched my O-4 AF Reserve colleagues get picked up for O-5 despite not passing a PT test or being outside of weight standards.…

I think a lot of this is genetic, societal and SAD/ food supply related. That and airline profession lifestyle. You can’t diet or PT your way out of these issues.

GLP-1 drugs will soon be commonplace in DoD.

 

[TyKing]

I understand the tightening up on fitness, but I wish there would be a shift in mindset on beards being seen as acceptable and professional. The Royal Navy has allowed beards for a while, I think we can still up hold standards and allow men to grow beards that look professional.

 

[Griz882]

and allow men to grow beards that look professional.

This is the thing. Most things guys are growing is scraggly, sporadic stuff, not a real beard.

Question for the pointy nose pros…would a beard interfere with an O2 mask?

 

[FLGUY]

This is the thing. Most things guys are growing is scraggly, sporadic stuff, not a real beard.

This. There would need to be very strict standards for them if implemented. Although, if I had to choose between beards and no beards for which looks more professional, I have a hard time saying a beard looks more professional. Acceptable? Sure. But being clean shaven has always looked neater imo.

 

[Spekkio]

Alternate cardio has been around since I was a midshipman in 2004, albeit we weren’t allowed to do it in NROTC. Not a new phenomenon. And if you read that study standards for women are much higher now compared to the increase for men.

On the plank piece, honestly curious what the scores trends have looked like since implementation compared to sit ups. I have a long torso so I always sucked at sit-ups, but I have a lot of willpower so I can plank all day. My squadron had a mock PRT yesterday and interestingly enough a lot of people were talking about how they wished they could go back to sit-ups. I was also one of the last ones standing (horizontal?) on the plank.

The point was that alt cardio wasn't around 30-40 years ago during the "easier" PRT.

As for planks, I'm talking about the difficulty for an untrained person to pass, not the difficulty to do well. Holding an isometric exercise like planks for 71 /61 seconds is merely a test of mental willpower.

Although if you want to max planks, buy yourself a $10 ab roller and youtube some videos on infinite plank form. Once you can do 2-2.5 minutes, you can get to max with proper form, it's all mental.

If the Navy wants to use planks, it should be a pass / fail event at 2 minutes.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

If there's going to be a renewed focus on physical fitness standards then there needs to be a corresponding renewed focus on the nutritional standards of offered food choices on base.

 

[Spekkio]

I understand the tightening up on fitness, but I wish there would be a shift in mindset on beards being seen as acceptable and professional. The Royal Navy has allowed beards for a while, I think we can still up hold standards and allow men to grow beards that look professional.

The Royal Navy gives people two weeks and then they have a beard board to make sure that their beards look professional.

That would go over like a fart in church in the USN.

 

[sevenhelmet]

This is the thing. Most things guys are growing is scraggly, sporadic stuff, not a real beard.

Agreed. Good grooming is professional and enforceable. I don’t have an issue with beards, just the brushpile excuses for beards that some folks in uniform sport. I’m also sick of the entitled way some people play up folliculitis. Just drop the whole issue entirely and have grooming and occupational specialty standards for beards.

Question for the pointy nose pros…would a beard interfere with an O2 mask?

In practical terms, it depends on how well groomed the beard is. I know guys in the civilian world and foreign militaries who sport beards and fly with an O2 mask just fine.

In OPNAV terms, it is verboten, IIRC.

 

[Griz882]

On the army side there was a time during the long war that Big Army published an order that all SOF guys who had legal beards in theater had to shave them off when they returned stateside. It was always funny to see some deeply tanned guy walk into the base exchange with a missing beard tan line - Welcome home, soldier!

 

[SynixMan]

I think the DoD should look at BCA standards again. Wasn’t there a report awhile back saying the USN is the fattest branch? Not saying we need sailors to be a bunch of Adonis’, but (arguably) there is something to be said about professional appearance in uniform. Seeing overweight/obese sailors (Chiefs and Officers too) is far too common IMO, and it makes us look sloppy.

You strike me as someone who’s never struggled with their weight. I’m 40, in arguably the best fitness of my life, and can’t pass height/weight or rope and choke. Not everyone is shaped the same.