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NEWS RIP Beards and thiccbois

Pianistwithwings

Grumpy Cat
None
You strike me as someone who’s never struggled with their weight. I’m 40, in arguably the best fitness of my life, and can’t pass height/weight or rope and choke. Not everyone is shaped the same.
There is another problem when everyone... EVERYONE is being roped and chocked to make sure they haven't exceeded 39." Never mind the PT test. Add to that the stresses of just operating in the navy or other service.
When will the SEC-DEF address the veteran suicide crisis? Seems like [this memo is] extremely low hanging fruit that fails to address the other elephants in the room.
 
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Duc'-guy25

Well-Known Member
pilot
Of all the things we could be focusing on to improve quality of life, increase retention and recruiting, and deliver the much needed capability to the warfighter... this policy done none of those things.

An overweight Chief doesn't determine whether I come home from a peer conflict or not.

Making an E3 shave his beard won't fix our crumbling base infrastructure, or provide me with the sensors, weapons, killchains, and capabilities we need to win in 2027.

This is yet another example of how our "warfighter" policies are really meant to win points on Fox News, continue the overt politicization of what is supposed to be a non-political and nonpartisan organization, and ultimately will not meaningfully increase combat readiness or our ability to win the next conflict.

WTF do you want? A better missile? You have AIM-120, you should be grateful.

Go be a warfighter already, stop make excuses. It’s not like anyone at the operational or strategic level is going to fuck it away anyhow.

Stop yo bitchin.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
The PT test changes will help with 8% cuts.
That’s what this is really about.

WTF do you want? A better missile? You have AIM-120, you should be grateful.

Go be a warfighter already, stop make excuses. It’s not like anyone at the operational or strategic level is going to fuck it away anyhow.

Stop yo bitchin.
For real.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor

Somewhat timely and hopefully leads to better measurements. On a side note did not remember that it had been since 2017 that we stopped the discharges for failures. For some reason I thought that was only a COVID thing.
 

FLGUY

“Technique only”
pilot
Contributor
You strike me as someone who’s never struggled with their weight. I’m 40, in arguably the best fitness of my life, and can’t pass height/weight or rope and choke. Not everyone is shaped the same.
I’ve had my ups and downs. And I’ve found myself close to BCA limits many times, but the solution for me was always just diet and exercise. It can be hard, but at the end of the day it’s the solution for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.

I do, however, think that ensuring whatever the BCA standards we enforce are an accurate metric of what a healthy human looks like. For example, being able to hypothetically look at the 6’3” 250 pound USNA linebacker who can still crush the PRT as being within standards in the same way we look at the naturally skinny person who (seems to) effortlessly maintain their height and weight. BMI is not always black and white. Which is why I love the recent policy of allowing sailors who score high enough to be exempt from BCA standards (hoping that policy didn’t get tossed out in this recent NAVADMIN).

But hey, maybe me wanting BCAs to be fair while also ensuring sailors strive to look good in uniforms would be me……having my cake and eating it too. 🥁 😉
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
I’ve had my ups and downs. And I’ve found myself close to BCA limits many times, but the solution for me was always just diet and exercise. It can be hard, but at the end of the day it’s the solution for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.

I do, however, think that ensuring whatever the BCA standards we enforce are an accurate metric of what a healthy human looks like. For example, being able to hypothetically look at the 6’3” 250 pound USNA linebacker who can still crush the PRT as being within standards in the same way we look at the naturally skinny person who (seems to) effortlessly maintain their height and weight. BMI is not always black and white. Which is why I love the recent policy of allowing sailors who score high enough to be exempt from BCA standards (hoping that policy didn’t get tossed out in this recent NAVADMIN).

But hey, maybe me wanting BCAs to be fair while also ensuring sailors strive to look good in uniforms would be me……having my cake and eating it too. 🥁 😉
I’m fine with reasonable tweaks to the BCA side.

My main issue if alt cardio goes away would be that we’re not a land bound service.

On a DDG, you’re not running regularly on deployment. You can cram a bunch of rowers or bikes into small spaces to support cardio. Treadmills are a thing, but need power to run. And you’re not running topside, plus it’ll fuck you up eventually.
 

FLGUY

“Technique only”
pilot
Contributor
I’m fine with reasonable tweaks to the BCA side.

My main issue if alt cardio goes away would be that we’re not a land bound service.

On a DDG, you’re not running regularly on deployment. You can cram a bunch of rowers or bikes into small spaces to support cardio. Treadmills are a thing, but need power to run. And you’re not running topside, plus it’ll fuck you up eventually.
I 100% agree that keeping alternate cardio is a good thing.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I do, however, think that ensuring whatever the BCA standards we enforce are an accurate metric of what a healthy human looks like. For example, being able to hypothetically look at the 6’3” 250 pound USNA linebacker who can still crush the PRT as being within standards in the same way we look at the naturally skinny person who (seems to) effortlessly maintain their height and weight. BMI is not always black and white. Which is why I love the recent policy of allowing sailors who score high enough to be exempt from BCA standards (hoping that policy didn’t get tossed out in this recent NAVADMIN).
The BCA height / weight standards are what a healthy human looks like. People like to hate on BMI because it gets confused with bodyfat %, but it is a strong indicator of heart condition risk, especially as you get over 40 years old. Doctors still use and record your BMI today as part of a holistic health assessment. I can point to tons of former athletes who have had early heart problems in their 50s due to carrying a lot of extra weight in their 20s and 30s. Our society has moved so far into the chronically overweight / obese category that 'normal and healthy' seems absurd.

Even still, the height / weight chart is set at the 'overweight' BMI and a tripwire to conduct the tape test, which works in theory. But that's where our tape tests are far too generous - an actually fit and muscular individual will tape at or under the NHA's recommendation of 37" men / 32" women. Then, if you go over the 40" / 35.5" allowance, you get to go to the bodyfat assessment where you get up to 26% bodyfat men / 36% bodyfat women, which is very far away from a fit bodyfat percentage of < 20% men / 26% women.

I'd be willing to bet that if we collected data that in practice, the vast majority of people getting to the rope and choke portion of the BCA (meaning, they have > 40" / 35.5" waist) are not getting outstanding low or better overall on the PRT.

That's why we have so many 'thiccbois' in uniform. They are passing the standards. Then 50 magic pushups, grit your teeth for a minute and a half plank, and huff on a bike set to 12 resistance at 90rpm for 12 minutes and you've got yourself a good low overall.

The goal here is to ensure people remain medically ready and don't become walking VA disability claims while in active service. The Navy doesn't need people to deadlift 500 lbs... it's great that people have such a hobby, but it shouldn't absolve them from physical standards that have a scientific basis for increased health risk that taxpayers are on the hook to pay for. And also, we do have an obligation to present a professional and healthy appearance to the general public.


Somewhat timely and hopefully leads to better measurements. On a side note did not remember that it had been since 2017 that we stopped the discharges for failures. For some reason I thought that was only a COVID thing.
Getting a gnats ass accurate bodyfat % number is relatively unimportant, and a big contributor to that is that studies show that people who genetically store more fat around the gut (usually men) still have higher health risks at slightly lower bodyfat percentages than people who genetically distribute the weight more evenly (usually women). The tape measure test is good enough in terms of cost vs. speed vs. accuracy.

I 100% agree that keeping alternate cardio is a good thing.
My issue with alternate cardio is the scale at implementation. Coming up with a time / distance table rather than calorie standard for the bike would go a long way.
 
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Dontcallmegump

Well-Known Member
pilot
Seriously, I wonder if the DoD couldn't prescribe Ozempic.

This is a whole can of worms, but studies are starting to really flesh out the negative side effects of these types of medications. Rapid weight loss on them is not that different from starvation, and has negative effects on bone and muscle mass. Sure, Jeff Bazos looks great but he's probably got a team of doctors looking at every angle, a kitchen staff making sure what he does eat is the best nutrition money can buy, and a training team to fight off the effects that would weaken a body.

I'd rather have a but of a chubby fleet than people who are thin but have no muscle and bones ready to snap when the do a heavy lift.

Also if everyone was on the colon clense shot, the rate of self harm among the junior HT rate would be eye watering.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
And nearly impossible to get to given our food supply. I would wager if you got in this measurement envelope it's just plain luck of genetics.
I disagree there, although it's significantly more difficult in the taller (6'1" or higher) end of the spectrum. A male body can usually carry around 7 lbs more lean mass per inch, but the scale raises at ~4 lbs per inch. Meanwhile, the shorter end of the spectrum is extremely generous for the same reason.

It turns out that being tall also pre-disposes you to heart risks.

It does take quite a bit of effort. A lot of our foods are prepared with butter, oils, and cheese, which quickly drives up the calorie count. Then there's the massive portions that restaurants serve - a dinner plate can easily be over 75% of a man's daily allowance for calories (mostly in fat) and > 100% of women's. And in the process, we tend not to eat enough fruits and vegetables (or on the ship, you get melted cheese and bacon garnished with green beans).

I've gained 15-20 lbs every sea tour, and lose it relatively rapidly on shore tours when I can control my own diet.

But if we're going to look ourselves in the mirror... the vast majority of obese sailors get that way by a combination of pounding energy drinks and alcohol abuse (and by that I mean the CDC's definition of alcohol abuse, which is > 3 drinks in a day or > 14 drinks in a week).

This is a whole can of worms, but studies are starting to really flesh out the negative side effects of these types of medications. Rapid weight loss on them is not that different from starvation, and has negative effects on bone and muscle mass. Sure, Jeff Bazos looks great but he's probably got a team of doctors looking at every angle, a kitchen staff making sure what he does eat is the best nutrition money can buy, and a training team to fight off the effects that would weaken a body.

I'd rather have a but of a chubby fleet than people who are thin but have no muscle and bones ready to snap when the do a heavy lift.

Also if everyone was on the colon clense shot, the rate of self harm among the junior HT rate would be eye watering.
Every PHA, I have to explain to the nurse why I take a multi-vitamin. I have no access to fruits and vegetables underway, nor access to sunlight. I literally have nutritional deficiencies from the shipboard environment that requires a multi-vitamin.

Then they make some kind of discontent face and send me on my way.

I'd be surprised if the military endorsed ozempic considering the sensitivity to the above.
 
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