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The end of NATO?

Odominable

PILOT HMSD TRACK FAIL
pilot
JV nature is an awfully generous characterization, and if we cared enough to go find your posts circa 2015-2016 I think we'd see some different framing...

Wrong is wrong because it's wrong. It's not JV and it's not open for interpretation. Make a good defense for any of this that isn't pulled from the mouths of partisan hacks - you cant.

Sanctimony? Fuck yeah. Put yourself onboard HST right now and think, "wait, I'm getting ready to fly and strike these targets, and while Yemen's air defense isn't exactly Moscow, if they have a heads up I'm coming, they've got some things..." and then wonder whether or not your own fucking WH administration is the one providing the tipper. Sanctimony? Yeah, unapologetically,

Finally, if we're getting our feelings hurt by "arrogant" or "sarcastic" remarks, maybe I've misunderstood the ready room nature of this forum.
Taking it back a step from the threat vignette you rightfully point out how are we supposed to hold people accountable for equivalent fuck ups in the face of this? I’ve seen Marines get their bags absolutely smashed for far less. A LCpl telling his friends *deployed launch times and TOTs* would be in the brig and quickly
 

Faded Float Coat

Suck Less
pilot

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Article today, written by a Navy EOD officer veteran, USNA grad, and friend of several members of this forum. I am beside myself at VADM (Ret) Donegan's comments, to the effect of "Nobody died." https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/27/...e_code=1.7E4.IdPd.PriBr_vXLDEl&smid=url-share
Ex post facto justifications of "Well it's not that big a deal, nobody died" are appalling and absurd.

I cannot believe anyone in the military or the IC would have the balls to make such a justification, but here we are.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Ex post facto justifications of "Well it's not that big a deal, nobody died" are appalling and absurd.

I cannot believe anyone in the military or the IC would have the balls to make such a justification, but here we are.
Again…and I know this kills those enjoying the echo-chamber….but ex post facto is how professionals analyze mistakes, errors, and failures so they aren’t repeated.


Even HR McMaster, no fan of Trump, said on CBS this morning, “…there weren’t any negative consequences associated with this. It was a potential breach, as far as we know, not a real breach.” So, let’s hope the right people get yelled at and this doesn’t happen again.
 
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number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Again…and I know this kills the enjoying the echo-chamber….but ex post facto is how professionals analyze mistakes, errors, and failures so they aren’t repeated.


Even HR McMaster, no fan of Trump, said on CBS this morning, “…there weren’t any negative consequences associated with this. It was a potential breach, as far as we know, not a real breach.” So, let’s hope the right people get yelled at and this doesn’t happen again.
Well, sure; you can't analyze mistakes before you make them. (Though my wife seems to be able to?!) The next time SN Timmy posts the ship's movement schedule to Facebook, are we going to say "Well no one sunk the ship, therefore no harm no foul"?

And not for nothing, but "as far as we know" by Gen McMaster - whom I quite like - is doing a lot of lifting in that sentence. Saying "no Super Hornets or Reapers were shot down" (which is great!) is one thing, but it's not the only thing.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
“…there weren’t any negative consequences associated with this. It was a potential breach, as far as we know, not a real breach.”
I hope that they are now doing the forensics on all the other Signal Chat sessions they had, to determine if there were any real breaches. There absolutely was a gaping vulnerability.

Thanks to Goldberg, we know about it. He could have easily not come forth.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I hope that they are now doing the forensics on all the other Signal Chat sessions they had, to determine if there were any real breaches. There absolutely was a gaping vulnerability.

Thanks to Goldberg, we know about it. He could have easily not come forth.
Also, Goldberg's phone might be the one that's compromised. Journalist phones are sometimes very effectively targeted by nation-states: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/journalists-investigating-pegasus-spyware/
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I hope that they are now doing the forensics on all the other Signal Chat sessions they had, to determine if there were any real breaches. There absolutely was a gaping vulnerability.

Thanks to Goldberg, we know about it. He could have easily not come forth.
I believe they are. Apparently Signal was also used in earlier administrations and has been hard to tamp down - probably because it is too easy when compared to doing the right thing and using a SCIF.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Well, sure; you can't analyze mistakes before you make them. (Though my wife seems to be able to?!) The next time SN Timmy posts the ship's movement schedule to Facebook, are we going to say "Well no one sunk the ship, therefore no harm no foul"?

And not for nothing, but "as far as we know" by Gen McMaster - whom I quite like - is doing a lot of lifting in that sentence. Saying "no Super Hornets or Reapers were shot down" (which is great!) is one thing, but it's not the only thing.
Before you get overly concerned about SN Timmy and “the injustice of it all” go read the many conversations we’ve had in the “Another Skipper Relieved” thread. I too sometimes weep for SN Timmy but there has always been a “rule for thee but not for me” way about the military and even more so about politicians.
 

NoMoreMrNiceGuy

Well-Known Member
None
Again…and I know this kills the enjoying the echo-chamber….but ex post facto is how professionals analyze mistakes, errors, and failures so they aren’t repeated.


Even HR McMaster, no fan of Trump, said on CBS this morning, “…there weren’t any negative consequences associated with this. It was a potential breach, as far as we know, not a real breach.” So, let’s hope the right people get yelled at and this doesn’t happen again.
I'm sure he would've been super happy with the Iraqis having a 2 hours heads-up at 73 Easting.... (Apples to Oranges, yes. And a hypothetical.)

At the end of the day it's a spectacular own-goal that didn't need to happen. Like so many own-goals of this and the last several administrations. Unforced errors shouldn't be tolerated and should be appropriately castigated. We've all made them and had them painfully brought out at debriefs...which is how you learn. They own this particular fuck up and to pretend otherwise is professionally dishonest on everyone's part.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Before you get overly concerned about SN Timmy and “the injustice of it all” go read the many conversations we’ve had in the “Another Skipper Relieved” thread. I too sometimes weep for SN Timmy but there has always been a “rule for thee but not for me” way about the military and even more so about politicians.
I genuinely don't think I've seen that thread - can you share a link?
 
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