I was going to defend you by pointing out that an 8 foot wall is at least twice your height......
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Today's Navy or your Grandfather's
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TrickyFish
SNA
I have to go with today's Navy, because now I can fly, and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to. Yes there are anatomical and physiological differences between men and women, but that doesn't mean that I am incapable of serving and flying. I agree that some of the concessions are rediculous, and women should have to do more to meet in the middle, but I'm infuriated by the idea that just because I am a women there are things of which I am capable but that I should not be allowed to do. I don't want to be just a lady. I want to fly an aircraft and serve my country simultaneously.
I do agree that the PC bs is getting out of hand though.
I do agree that the PC bs is getting out of hand though.
O.K. .... got it now.
I'd vote for YOU and all 66" w/ your pistol instead of the Winchester Amazon ....
I agree. Fuck the wall -- it can only hurt you if it falls on you.....
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
So women in the military are a waste of ammo as well?
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
OK, I have a REALLY DUMB question. What does a woman do when she needs to use a venturi tube? 
Did they reinstall the shitters in the back of hummers? Privacy in birds like S 3's, COD's, ect where room is a premium?
Did they reinstall the shitters in the back of hummers? Privacy in birds like S 3's, COD's, ect where room is a premium?phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Most of the women I flew with held it until we landed...OK, I have a REALLY DUMB question. What does a woman do when she needs to use a venturi tube?
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
And the others? The ones who did hold were some Manly Women, if one has gotta pee, you just gotta pee.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
We've got three hours total of gas, less if we're carrying pax or cargo. Never saw a woman have to pee on a Phrog before. I expect that they would probably go squat on the ramp...
I definitely think I was born 60 years too late. Flying Hellcats or Corsairs over the Pacific with plenty of Jap planes to go around. Dogfights with planes all over the sky. Of course you were much less likely to survive, but hey that's why we all want to do this; the adventure. The only thing I imagine I wouldn't like is trying to land a Corsair on a carrier, I've heard that was a bitch.
I'm not a "dude" ... I'm a man .... but I would still say old Navy. It may have not been "perfect" in many ways ... but then, what is???
Women were "in the Navy" in the "old" Navy. They just didn't want to be the "equal" of the men nor share the same junk or bunk and bear the same burden. And why should they??? Women are special and they were treated like ladies by the old Navy. Men and women are not created equal, get used to it.
Or .... do any of you ladies want to take on an old man in the boxing ring today ??? 'Cause I guarantee you someone's nose is gonna get bloody ....
But seriously, if I were a lady ... I would rather be alive back in the days of "my Grandfather's" Navy ... 'cause then I'd be treated like a "lady" instead of a gender-neutered, one size fits all, military "person".
I've worked with, flown with, and trained many women in the airlines. There were many compromises to get the women onboard -- but I refused to do it. No PC in my cockpit or my simulator. You get the job ONLY if you can "do" the job.
Oh, wait!!! You can't say "cockpit" anymore in the airlines as some women are offended by it. Believe that .....
Sorry ladies ... I've also seen the introduction of women into Naval Aviation and I've seen the compromises that were instituted to get the women qualified. It's not right, it demeans women, and it hurts the overall effort. Want proof?? Can you say Pensacola O-Course???
This is not a "rant" ... it's just the truth. Grandpa's Navy is where I'd want to be ....
A4s, I understand that you want women to be "ladies," but how does women serving as aviators automatically preclude them from being ladies? The same argument of it not being "ladylike" has been used to keep women from playing sports, out of professional schools, and voting because men didn't want us to worry our pretty little heads about things like that. I and the other females in ROTC with me do everything to maintain our femininity while still doing our jobs. Being a lady and being in the military in any kind of warfare job aren't mutually exclusive.
And I've never had the opportunity to do an O-course, though I wish I could- looks like the kind of fun that kicks your ass. I agree women's physical standards need to be higher. I meet the male standards and it pisses me off to no end when I see other females just doing the measly number of pushups required of us and barely moving their feet to meet the ridiculously slow time we have to do the 1.5 miles.
In the end I think the current percentage of females in the military isn't going to get any higher. It is a very self-selecting bunch that do join and I'd say most who do recognize they are going into a predominantly male profession. I don't think retention is going to get higher either. At the rate I'm going now I don't see myself doing beyond the 6 from wings that will be required of me (though I haven't made a definite choice yet), primarily because I want to have kids and I don't want them to be military brats. Pretty much all the females at my ROTC unit feel the same way. We're excited to do our time, but we don't see it as a career thing.
My understanding being... you can "do" the job without any special treatment. Other people who receive special treatment piss you off and make A4s weep for the future.
UNLESS congress, CNO, or whomever gets paid to make the big bucks says "make the percentage go up"... when this happens I assure you. Standards as a whole will go down and more qualified individuals will be shown the door in order to raise the female percentage.
I've seen it before and I will see it again... and I will see it again...
Long read and I’m sorry…Just venting.
I do not agree with “quotas” you’ve gotta be able to perform a job. It’s okay with me if you give free educations to minority groups so they can perform these jobs, but don’t lower standards. Give’um a leg up… not a free ride.
Since my departure from the navy back in the late 60’s I’ve been involved in heavy/highway construction as a project engineer. Well, back then the federal government instituted a “minority set aside program” and frankly it sucks! We are required, when federal money is involved, to give a certain percentage of the total contract to minority subcontractors. If I get bids from unqualified companies I have to jump through hoops with paperwork to prove the company might not be qualified. And… I ask why??? Lookit! You give me a bid, and are qualified, I don’t care if you’re brown, yellow, purple, or a female… If you’re qualified, and your company submitted a responsive bid you’ll get the job.
Here’s an actual example… Back just before the bicentennial the FHA wanted to upgrade the Baltimore-Washington Parkway from about Odenton right down to the DC line, make it look pretty for the visitors. Okay, no problem… The FHA made the project a “minority set aside” so my company, a very qualified company, couldn’t bid the project.
Out to bid the project went, bids were received by the “set aside” contractors and all were way over the “engineer’s estimate” above 5 million dollars. After the bids were received, and the FHA had met all the “set aside” requirements, the project went out to bid through regular advertisement. A joint venture “Contee Sand and Gravel and Arundle Asphalt” were low bidder at just over 3 million dollars. You do the math! And this shit happens every day with this “PC” crap. Even today! This is why I get upset a bout “BRAC” it’s not the actual idea it’s the money wasted by these programs during the construction process.
Okay… sorry… I’ll get off my soap box now and head on home. Bottom line… Set standards and keep “em.”
Steve
I rest my case.
But you can have kids and stay a military officer and I do know of some women who want to do it and more power to them. It personally isn't for me, not because I'm a woman per se, but just because I don't want my kids to be military brats. And I'd say the kids thing is only part of the reason I don't want to stay in- I think I've found other career opportunities that would suit me better for the long term regardless if I even have kids or not. But even the fact that many women don't want to make a career of the Navy is no reason to exclude them. There are just as many men out there who go through ROTC/USNA and say they're going to do their minimum time and peace out.
I think there probably are as many men that 5 and dive, but I'd be very interested to see the stats on how many women stay in per total women vs how many men. My guess is the women ratio is much lower.