The Great Growler Gallery

[Fog]

Why don't we have more C's to go around? They stopped building them a while ago, simple as that.

AW&ST's annual inventory issue says the Navy has over 250 F-18C&Ds (guess the Navy uses Ds in the RAGs), which begs the question of how many E/F models will trickle down to squadrons currently flying C models before the F-35C drives up. I guess that was the larger point of the question: we have a bunch of C models now & why can't some of them be allocated to the reserves?

 

[Brett327]

There is only one reserve VFA squadron left, VFA-204 River Rattlers. One of the adversary squadrons, VFC-12 Fighting Omars flies F/A-18's too though. When I flew with CVWR-20 at Fallon they said the A+'s they flew were not much different than the C's the regular guys flew. As a matter of fact, VFC-12 traded their A+'s with an active squadron's C's a few years ago because the A+'s had a lot more traps left in them versus the C's.

Why don't we have more C's to go around? They stopped building them a while ago, simple as that.

There are also AD squadrons still flying A+ models. VFA-87 comes to mind.

Brett

 

[Flash]

AW&ST's annual inventory issue says the Navy has over 250 F-18C&Ds (guess the Navy uses Ds in the RAGs), which begs the question of how many E/F models will trickle down to squadrons currently flying C models before the F-35C drives up. I guess that was the larger point of the question: we have a bunch of C models now & whay can't some of them be allocated to the reserves?

From talking to the VFA guys and seeing them at work-ups and exercises I don't think we have had 'more than enough' C's and D's to go around. They always seemed to be short a few aircraft excpet when they deployed, like everyone else in the Navy. When you consider the number of aircraft in the RAG, in depot and deployed I am thinking that we don't have as many as it would seem on paper. The same story with pretty much every aircraft I have ever flown in the Navy.

As for the Reserves not having C's, I think VFC-12 has them and that only leaves VFA-204. Frankly, they don't need them as much as the active side and do fine without. The reserve guys said the A+'s were fine and they seemed to do well with them.

I guess the lesson is that if you want new stuff join the USAFR or ANG.

There are also AD squadrons still flying A+ models. VFA-87 comes to mind.

Brett

Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. They got them from VFC-12 who got their C's in return. The A+'s had a lot more traps left in them.

 

[Uncle Fester]

To the OP: given the rough 50/50 split of opinions in response, I think you can conclude that either way you win, and either way you're slingin' trons and living in Whidbey.

My own opinion, FWIW, is that aircraft with slim NATOPS are not to be trusted. It just means they don't yet know all the ways the jet can kill you.

 

[Pags]

To the OP: given the rough 50/50 split of opinions in response, I think you can conclude that either way you win, and either way you're slingin' trons and living in Whidbey.

My own opinion, FWIW, is that aircraft with slim NATOPS are not to be trusted. It just means they don't yet know all the ways the jet can kill you.

I just a copy of the MH-60S NATOPS from four years ago. I'd say it's grown by 30-50%, but I think Ch. 12 has become smaller and the limits and major systems haven't really changed.

 

[Brett327]

To the OP: given the rough 50/50 split of opinions in response, I think you can conclude that either way you win, and either way you're slingin' trons and living in Whidbey.

My own opinion, FWIW, is that aircraft with slim NATOPS are not to be trusted. It just means they don't yet know all the ways the jet can kill you.

From a NATOPS POV, the G is just an F with different stores on it and a different software load - a pretty mature airframe at this point.

Brett

 

[puck_11]

13x VAQ squadrons with 6 jets each (or is it going to be 5 G's? I can't remember) plus a RAG with 15 jets equals 93 Growlers, not counting 209 if it stays around, or any jets getting fixed in the depot. Plus a few that the China Lake guys will probably keep on hand, and any other cats and dogs I'm forgetting.

Wiki sez the planned buy is 90, so I would think we'd need about 15 more jets funded by somebody, no?

The plan for the exped growler buy is 30 additional aircraft with 7 going to each squadron and the extra's accounting for attrition, FRS jets, and depot birds. From what we've been told it sounds very close to happening.

All the rumors that we've been hearing lately that people swear will never happen, have been happening. Like 134 joining Airwing 17!

As for the OP, go Growlers! I wouldn't even give it a second guess.

 

[nittany03]

The plan for the exped growler buy is 30 additional aircraft with 7 going to each squadron and the extra's accounting for attrition, FRS jets, and depot birds. From what we've been told it sounds very close to happening.

All the rumors that we've been hearing lately that people swear will never happen, have been happening. Like 134 joining Airwing 17!

As for the OP, go Growlers! I wouldn't even give it a second guess.

I'm just going to focus on getting through the RAG and entertain myself watching the chaos, confusion, and disorder that the Growler transition seems to be devolving into.

Or should I say that there is none of the above, just a multitude of meticulously researched plans, which happen to involve a 180 or a 90 degree turn every couple months? Prowlers, G-warm left, GO!

 

[Flash]

The plan for the exped growler buy is 30 additional aircraft with 7 going to each squadron and the extra's accounting for attrition, FRS jets, and depot birds. From what we've been told it sounds very close to happening.

All the rumors that we've been hearing lately that people swear will never happen, have been happening. Like 134 joining Airwing 17!

What plan? Is there anything firm or is it just ideas being fermented in Whidbey? I would seriously doubt it until I see something in writing, like the defense budget. Until then it is just ideas and nothing more. Buying 30 more aircraft is just a little bit more of a leap than a squadron going back to the boat.

 

[Brett327]

What plan? Is there anything firm or is it just ideas being fermented in Whidbey? I would seriously doubt it until I see something in writing, like the defense budget. Until then it is just ideas and nothing more. Buying 30 more aircraft is just a little bit more of a leap than a squadron going back to the boat.

Concur. Congress has bought off on ZERO additional Growler purchases at this point, so everything else is pure conjecture.

@Jorts: What makes you think the G pipeline is in disarray? You don't really have any knowledge or basis for making that assertion, and it would be false if you did.

Brett

 

[TheBubba]

Talking with some of the dudes I know going through the syllabus... CAT-I or transitions... they're saying that the syllabus is running relatively well... maybe some gripes about the order of events and time spent on one thing vice another, which in my ind is minor. Kinks like that are to be expected in any type of new syllabus, and will get worked out as the syllabus matures.

 

[Fog]

This is probably a subject for a new thread, but with 1 (one) VFA squadron in the entire NavAirRes, one wonders why we even bother. I guess this reflects back on the way the make-up (at least of the officer corps) of the Navy has so fundamentally changed over the past 20 years. When I served (yes, steam gauges everywhere) from the mid-60's to late 80's, only Boat School & NROTC scholarship guys were commissioned (O-1s) as regular Navy officers. Everyone else was a reservist & the commitments were for 3.5 - 5 yrs after winging. Most people were reservists & there was a large NavAirRes and you could reasonably expect to fly there after your active-duty days if you wanted to serve. Now, it seems that most every officer on active duty is an 1110/1310/1320 & there is almost no NavAirRes to go to if you do get out. Maybe this is the best way to run the Navy in today's political & budget world, but I wouldn't want it if I had to go round again. JMHO, FWIW.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well, I think back then the mindset was still that we needed a large Reserve cadre for when the Big One went off with the Rooskies. Now, I guess it's more a few specialized units (can't afford specialization in the Regulars) and a small group of bodies for augmenting Regular squadrons.

Just no mo' money for ResRon flying clubs. More's the pity.

 

[puck_11]

What plan? Is there anything firm or is it just ideas being fermented in Whidbey? I would seriously doubt it until I see something in writing, like the defense budget. Until then it is just ideas and nothing more. Buying 30 more aircraft is just a little bit more of a leap than a squadron going back to the boat.

Roger, I was trying to clear up what the numbers are that are being thrown around if it does happen.

 

[Fog]

Just no mo' money for ResRon flying clubs. More's the pity.

Well, that truly sucks. Maybe I should hope Putin gets another term as President & continues to take Russia back to the days of the Bad 'Ol Kremlin.