Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)

[ea6bflyr]

"DIFDEN: Duty In A Flying Status Not Involving Flying"

What the hell does that mean?

READ: Flying a Desk.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Uncle Fester]

I've wondered that, too. What does DIFDEN actually stand for?

 

[Scoob]

I've wondered that, too. What does DIFDEN actually stand for?

It actually stands for: Duty Involving Flying: DENied.

 

[Scoob]

READ: Flying a Desk.

-ea6bflyr

Yes, however there are many different levels of desk flying. In this case, my second consecutive set of DIFDEN orders, it will be a much more tolerable degree of desk flying than the previous set.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I've wondered that, too. What does DIFDEN actually stand for?

DIFCREW. Duty for enlisted personnel in a flying status involving operational or training flights.

DIFDEN. Duty in a flying status for an officer not involving flying.

DIFOPS. Duty in a flying status for an officer involving operational or training flights.

DIFTECH. Duty involved flying as a technical observer.

DIFTEM (USN). Duty in a temporary flying status performing special mission duties as a noncrew member. Enlisted personnel are so ordered in accordance with BUPERINST 1326.4 (series).

I also found a reference to DIFDEN meaning Duty in a Flying Status - Denied.

DIFDEN is duty in a flying status not involving flying. Officers and enlisted personnel so designated are prohibited from performing operational crewmember duties except as modified in the following paragraphs. DIFDEN officer personnel will continue to receive continuous ACIP if entitled by the Aviation Career Incentive Act of 1974. Enlisted personnel will continue to receive CEFIP if so entitled.

Hmm...sounds like the actual meaning is Duty In a Flying status DENied. But you can still fly up to 5 times each month, but your OPERATIONAL monthly counter will not advance.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Scoob]

Hmm...sounds like the actual meaning is Duty In a Flying status DENied. But you can still fly up to 5 times each month, but your OPERATIONAL monthly counter will not advance.

-ea6bflyr

Actually, its Duty Involving Flying DENied. Duty In a Flying status DENied would mean no more ACIP.

Where's the 5x come from? I ask b/c I got squashed on attempt to be a rental pilot for PAX SAR due to DIFDEN. My scrub of 3710 yielded no end-around.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Actually, its Duty Involving Flying DENied. Duty In a Flying status DENied would mean no more ACIP.

Yep.

Where's the 5x come from? I ask b/c I got squashed on attempt to be a rental pilot for PAX SAR due to DIFDEN. My scrub of 3710 yielded no end-around.

OPNAVINST 3710.7T 11.2.7.1 Flying by Individuals in DIFDEN Status.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Xtndr50boom]

Yeah, right. Truthfully, most of them are utter and complete dorks who marry the first piece of ass who shows them their vagina, then pathetically phone musters every five minutes every second they're away from home. Result: bad divorce by age 28.

Brett

That's awesome! I think it applies for alot of AF enlisted aircrew too. Except former MX, and boom operators who do their homework before their social castration. Ie, a pre-nup written by an outstanding lawyer

 

[AllAmerican75]

ride motorcycles, pump fists, nail blondes with antique cars, and gain carnal knowledges of ladies on the premises of wherever they are at.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I also found a reference to DIFDEN meaning Duty in a Flying Status - Denied.

This is true.

Hmm...sounds like the actual meaning is Duty In a Flying status DENied. But you can still fly up to 5 times each month, but your OPERATIONAL monthly counter will not advance.

-ea6bflyr

As a guy currently on DIFDEN, I can tell you that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that. That exception in OPNAV was designed for people in critical billets who need to fly/ride in aircraft as part of their job, but only very rarely. It isn't designed, nor is it likely to be approved for, a staff pouge to go bag a few hours. Even if the guys flying him really want him to/are short handed. Those waivers are a redass.

 

[phrogpilot73]

For FAC tours:

DIFDEN = no crew rest/crew day... But you can still brag about your flight pay to the grunts (they love that). There was only like 1 or 2 guys in the Battalion that got paid more than me (hint: it was the CO & XO).

The sweetest part of DIFDEN orders was the blurb (at least on mine) that said something to the effect of "you are prohibited from flight operations, but oh by the way, you still have to get flight physicals."

 

[Scoob]

I also found a reference to DIFDEN meaning Duty in a Flying Status - Denied.

DIFDEN is duty in a flying status not involving
flying. Officers and enlisted personnel so designated
are prohibited from performing operational
crewmember duties except as modified in the
following paragraphs. DIFDEN officer personnel
will continue to receive continuous ACIP if
entitled by the Aviation Career Incentive Act of
1974. Enlisted personnel will continue to receive
CEFIP if so entitled.​

"Duty in a flying status" means you will continue to receive ACIP. "Duty involving flying" means you are performing "operational crewmember duties."

NATOPS lists DIFDEN as "Duty in a flying status not involving flying" everywhere except one place:

8.8.2.1 Periodic Flight Physical Examination.
All aircrew and duty involving flight denied (DIFDEN)
personnel shall be examined at regular intervals as
prescribed by MANMED.​

Much ado about nothing, I know, but when you've been hard down for a year and a half, then NPQ'ed for 6 mos. (w/o flight pay), then waivered (w/ retro-active flight pay :icon_smil), then try to get a little stick time while on DIFDEN because you're aching to loose the surly bonds.., then go IA and get asked by the Army "do you need to fly while you're here", then wrestle with the detailer to get orders back to somewhere you can at least have the chance to fly - these distinctions become pretty important.

Of course, I could be wrong. What's the reference for "duty in a flying status denied" mentioned earlier?

 

[Harrier Dude]

FWIW, in case it's not obvious, just because you are DIFOP does not mean that you'll fly. It means that you're supposed to fly, but your annual flight hour requirements are but a short waiver away. Your monitor/detailer will assume for the sake of orders that you flew every day......and give you follow on orders appropriately......i.e. probably to a staff job (DIFDEN).

My current job is supposed to be DIFOP. I asked for and recieved DIFDEN orders because it was obvious that I would never get to fly during this assignment (1 to 1.5 years). All of the squadrons are deployed and/or getting ready to deploy and are busting their collective asses to fly and train the guys that they have physically in the squadron. The group staff and other associated pouges from around the base (like myself) might get to fly once a month or so. Not worth it. I'd rather have a good deal coming from the monitor (hopefully). I have my OPFLY gates made anyway, so it's no big deal.

By the way (and it's a little too late to ask this), but are LSOs allowed to wave on DIFDEN orders? I looked through OPNAV, V/STOL LSO NATOPS, LSO NATOPS, and the LHA/LHD NATOPS very thoroughly, but no joy. I couldn't find where it said I couldn't, so I assumed that I could.

I did it, but I was worried in the back of my mind what would happen "if".......

Anybody else ever do this?

 

[clearskiez]

so heres a stupid one, can pilots listen to their ipod while they fly or is there just too much going on? id think it might depend on what you're doing up there, but in general...

 

[phrogpilot73]

so heres a stupid one, can pilots listen to their ipod while they fly or is there just too much going on? id think it might depend on what you're doing up there, but in general...

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I'm sure it's against the regs.

Longer answer: It really depends on what you're doing. I've listened to an iPod (through a VERY not-legal modification to the ICS system) on a cross country with no passengers on board. Would I do it on a mission? No. Would I do it on a flight that had passengers? No. You just can't be a jackass about it.