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Coolest Dad Ever
- Thread starter EM1
- Start date
O.K. ... here we go once more ... looks like I gotta' be the 'mean' guy again ... some of you boys are so unbelievably PC and 'touchy-feely' it makes one's eyes glaze over ... 
JFK on a 'good day' is one of the most fucked up airports in the western world -- and that's on all sides of the runways. Goofy procedures, ATC screw-ups, tower hysteria, heavy local traffic, foreign carriers, HEAVY radio traffic, lazy ramp-rats, lazy mechanics, the WX, the Mafia, graft, corruption, incompetence, theft, armed robbery, murder ... and that's on a good day.
This 'guy' had no business putting his kid on the radio. It's completely unprofessional and potentially hazardous. If a pilot did it -- he'd be fried. A kid's voice on the frequency has NO place in a busy terminal area, especially one as dysfunctional as JFK. With 'whatever, no harm, no foul .... ' attitudes such as this 'guy' (and some of you) are promoting, it's not hard to see WHY airports/ATC's like JFK are fucked up.
He deserves a month 'vacation'; consider it a 'special time' so he can spend some more time w/ his kid(s) ... ???
Does the concept of 'sterile cockpit' ring a bell w/ anyone ??? It applies & counts on both ends of the frequency.
For the record: this is probably the ONLY time I've ever agreed w/ the 'now honorable' J. Randall Babbitt, so consider that a milestone at the very least ...
JFK on a 'good day' is one of the most fucked up airports in the western world -- and that's on all sides of the runways. Goofy procedures, ATC screw-ups, tower hysteria, heavy local traffic, foreign carriers, HEAVY radio traffic, lazy ramp-rats, lazy mechanics, the WX, the Mafia, graft, corruption, incompetence, theft, armed robbery, murder ... and that's on a good day.
This 'guy' had no business putting his kid on the radio. It's completely unprofessional and potentially hazardous. If a pilot did it -- he'd be fried. A kid's voice on the frequency has NO place in a busy terminal area, especially one as dysfunctional as JFK. With 'whatever, no harm, no foul .... ' attitudes such as this 'guy' (and some of you) are promoting, it's not hard to see WHY airports/ATC's like JFK are fucked up.
He deserves a month 'vacation'; consider it a 'special time' so he can spend some more time w/ his kid(s) ... ???
Does the concept of 'sterile cockpit' ring a bell w/ anyone ??? It applies & counts on both ends of the frequency.
For the record: this is probably the ONLY time I've ever agreed w/ the 'now honorable' J. Randall Babbitt, so consider that a milestone at the very least ...
I'm with the FAA and A-4's on this one. There is no room for that in this business. Even though the kids were supervised and being told what to say, I'm sure it was a major distraction to everyone around.
Nope. What is it? How does it apply here?
O.K. ... here we go once more ... looks like I gotta' be the 'mean' guy again ... some of you boys are so unbelievably PC and 'touchy-feely' it makes one's eyes glaze over ...
JFK on a 'good day' is one of the most fucked up airports in the western world -- and that's on all sides of the runways. Goofy procedures, ATC screw-ups, tower hysteria, heavy local traffic, foreign carriers, HEAVY radio traffic, lazy ramp-rats, lazy mechanics, the WX, the Mafia, graft, corruption, incompetence, theft, armed robbery, murder ... and that's on a good day.
This 'guy' had no business putting his kid on the radio. It's completely unprofessional and potentially hazardous. If a pilot did it -- he'd be fried. A kid's voice on the frequency has NO place in a busy terminal area, especially one as dysfunctional as JFK. With 'whatever, no harm, no foul .... ' attitudes such as this 'guy' (and some of you) are promoting, it's not hard to see WHY airports/ATC's like JFK are fucked up.
He deserves a month 'vacation'; consider it a 'special time' so he can spend some more time w/ his kid(s) ... ???
Does the concept of 'sterile cockpit' ring a bell w/ anyone ??? It applies & counts on both ends of the frequency.
For the record: this is probably the ONLY time I've ever agreed w/ the 'now honorable' J. Randall Babbitt, so consider that a milestone at the very least ...
Well go figure. This is one of the rare times I disagree with A4s.
While JFK may indeed be chaotic, and in fact "appear" to be the "most fucked up airports in the western world," the guys in the tower are some of the best in the country. It is they that have to work heavy radio traffic, foreign carriers who don't always accurately understand English, an airport layout that is confusing and crowded, multiple and simultaneous departures and arrivals, and lousy weather half the time. And their NY commute is horrible, they have to put up with the mafia, the Feds, extreme differences in piloting expertise, runway incursions, guys lost in taxiing or taking a wrong turn, etc., etc, etc. Therefore, only the best controllers are assigned there.
But JFK, for all its busy times and chaos, also has some extended periods of little or no traffic. It is also not uncommon for those at the top of their profession, during more relaxed times, to do some things while not illegal, but are definitely, "non-standard". You and I with our many years of experience behind us have both probably done some "non-standard' things. :icon_wink
A sterile cockpit still allows for necessary transmissions. And everything the kid said was by the book.... except maybe "adios." ('course I used to say "adios" a lot too, especially out of Mexico.) As a fledgling SNA, with a then squeaky voice not unlike the kid's, and having no clue as to what I should say, I once followed and repeated my instructor's words verbatim in transmissions to New York Center and Approach. Was that wrong?
Agree probably bad headwork on the controller's part. But over the years, I have heard the same type of thing many times. And I have also let ATC jumpseaters talk and receive instructions from controllers on the ground. And back in the day when our flight attendants could ride in the cockpit jumpseat, (and before there were many female pilots) we occasionally let them transmit to Center. Certainly the JFK departing aircraft not only understood the clearances, but also enjoyed them. In this day and age of everybody running scarred, a little change in the routine is a rare bright spot.
This is a tempest in a teapot that has caught the media's attention with all their hype, necessitating unnecessary overreaction on those in authority. I say, no harm, no foul. Just chew the controller out a bit and let's move on to more important stuff like duty limits, fatigue, ATC archaic and faulty equipment, understaffing, etc. You know, those things that really affect safety, rather than a kid who is sharper and more articulate than some in local airport towers.
pilot811
Fly High!
Of course I'm stuck in the middle. I can see how it was funny and nothing bad happened from it yet it is a professional/busy occupation and shenanigans like this are highly frowned upon these days. All you have to do is look at the past incidents that have happened recently to see the FAA and goverment aren't messing around. They're all taking heat from someone further up on the ladder to cover their own tail.
On a safety side obviously the father had a radio on him since he instantly talked back, so if something did go wrong he could quickly step in. Either way I'm sure the kid got a great experience from it and was able to brag about it to his friends, yet now his dad's paying the price.
Kevin
On a safety side obviously the father had a radio on him since he instantly talked back, so if something did go wrong he could quickly step in. Either way I'm sure the kid got a great experience from it and was able to brag about it to his friends, yet now his dad's paying the price.
Kevin
Then you leave me no choice other than to hate you forever ...
I still think they're amongst the worst. I probably had more problem-o's in JFK collectively in 25 years than any other airport. Except perhaps LAX and PEK ... the two being about the same level of competence. JFK is as bad as NRT or SEL or MNL, the only difference being that THOSE boys wouldn't argue with the gaijin devil, a.k.a. CAPT ALOHA.
I remember being able to sit in the cockpit with my dad on a BA flight into London-Heathrow airport all the way from descent to landing. It was an incredible experience flying over London and I even got to see the Concorde take off. Too bad that would never happen again.
Then you leave me no choice other than to hate you forever ...
I still think they're amongst the worst. I probably had more problem-o's in JFK collectively in 25 years than any other airport. Except perhaps LAX and PEK ... the two being about the same level of competence. JFK is as bad as NRT or SEL or MNL, the only difference being that THOSE boys wouldn't argue with the gaijin devil, a.k.a. CAPT ALOHA.
.... Nor would I argue with the "gaijin devil" (although being one myself)... unless he arcs and gives me some inviting, 'grapeish' angles. 
I think the problems at JFK originate not in the tower, but the whole circumstance and environment there. While I missed the Far East major hubs (thankfully, except for the far greater pay for going there) and thought LAX worked pretty well, I found MMMX including their approach, tower, and ground, not to mention close-by mountains, WX, stupid 90 degree high descent ILS approach, and a high altitude slippery runway to be far, far worse than JFK!
BTW A4s, I hate you forever too! Until the next time, anyways.
... Bruddah. :icon_wink
Funny you mention that ... we were going into OSAN on a MAC charter and came into Taegu airspace on the descent. The Korean controller that picked us up was COMPLETELY unintelligble and we couldn't make heads or tails of his radio calls and what might be considered 'verbal instructions' .... thankfully, the pain was relieved a couple of minutes later when a round-eye USAF controller came on and gave us left/right/do this/do that ... and switched us to the next freq. My co-pilot said "Thanks ... we're really glad you came on the freq so we could get RID OF THAT OTHER GUY" ...
We landed ... checked in and shat, showered & shaved and repaired to the O'Club bar .... when @ an hour or so later an EXTREMELY pissed off ROK Colonel came huffing up, followed by an entourage of 3 yes-men -- looked around the bar -- and made a bee-line for our table. He pulled himself upright in full military regalia, reeking of Kimche, screwed up his face, pointed at ME ... and said:
"WHA-A-A-A-A-A-A ..... WHAT YOU MEAN GUY !!??!!??"
Apparently, he had been in ATC and picked up the mic to 'impress' his men ... kinda' a 'face' thing for him. We're lucky we didn't get stood up against a wall.
I never did find out what 'guy' meant in Korean ... or what he thought it meant .... but I don't think it was good ...
Funny you mention that ... we were going into OSAN on a MAC charter and came into Taegu airspace on the descent. The Korean controller that picked us up was COMPLETELY unintelligble and we couldn't make heads or tails of his radio calls and what might be considered 'verbal instructions' .... thankfully, the pain was relieved a couple of minutes later when a round-eye USAF controller came on and gave us left/right/do this/do that ... and switched us to the next freq. My co-pilot said "Thanks ... we're really glad you came on the freq so we could get RID OF THAT OTHER GUY" ...
We landed ... checked in and shat, showered & shaved and repaired to the O'Club bar .... when @ an hour or so later an EXTREMELY pissed off ROK Colonel came huffing up, followed by an entourage of 3 yes-men -- looked around the bar -- and made a bee-line for our table. He pulled himself upright in full military regalia, reeking of Kimche, screwed up his face, pointed at ME ... and said:
"WHA-A-A-A-A-A-A ..... WHAT YOU MEAN GUY !!??!!??"
Apparently, he had been in ATC and picked up the mic to 'impress' his men ... kinda' a 'face' thing for him. We're lucky we didn't get stood up against a wall.
I never did find out what 'guy' meant in Korean ... or what he thought it meant .... but I don't think it was good ...
Yikes! I don't think you wanna piss those guys off! Glad you made it out alive!
LOL Yeah, it's TOUGH! Not so bad just getting switched freqs, headings, altitudes. Anything with numbers is usually OK. But I've never been so confused with a clearance. The other pilot and I looked at each other and our eyes got wide and I just started laughing. Oh crap....
Concur with the above. I would have laughed. It's not as if the kid was single-handedly directing traffic or even giving potentially dangerous calls (even still... it was clear he was regurgitating a call his dad gave him to say).
Bottom line, I am not worried with:
"XYZ, switch departure"
I MAY be a bit more concerned with:
"United XYZ, turn left heading 230, maintain 1,600 until established, cleared for the ILS 25"... followed by a childish chuckle. What I got from the article, the dad made it apparent even over the radios that he was right there.
Bottom line, I am not worried with:
"XYZ, switch departure"
I MAY be a bit more concerned with:
"United XYZ, turn left heading 230, maintain 1,600 until established, cleared for the ILS 25"... followed by a childish chuckle. What I got from the article, the dad made it apparent even over the radios that he was right there.