Only P-3's can . . . .Can you track a boat under the layer from the air (excuse and ignore if the question is an OPSEC issue)?

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Only P-3's can . . . .Can you track a boat under the layer from the air (excuse and ignore if the question is an OPSEC issue)?
Lack of MAD on the P-8?Only P-3's can . . . .![]()
Can you track a boat under the layer from the air (excuse and ignore if the question is an OPSEC issue)?
Yep, P-8 won't have MAD, but that has nothing to do with the ability to track a submarine above or below the thermocline layer. That has to do with where a hydrophone is positioned in relation to the layer and submarine.Lack of MAD on the P-8?
Certainly partly facetious...and admittedly a whole lot "uninformed", but I always shook my internal head when hearing "they're so quiet...we can't find them" when other tools have always been avail. I understand the trade-offs a bit better when it's "sub on sub"...but never really got it from airborne folks. Unless it's the old "well, we don't want them to know that we kinda-sorta even know where to look". Fine, I guess.
No need to respond...I'm paddling back into my own swim lane. You guys know best, and this forum isn't the best place to go "open kimono" on all that I don't know about ASW...
MAC is very unique in the way it pings. It's an SSQ-62/110 on steroids. It has the ability (because of source level, wave/beam forms and signal processing) to do much more than we have been able to do with legacy active and incoherent sources.
Airborne. I'm sure there are "wet" assests lurking around.
My first tour, the carrier had S-3s, H-3s and Lamps who's primary focus was on ASW. Plane guard, SSC, ISR, etc. all came second and these squadrons trained for ASW daily. First the S-3s lost their ASW mission and eventually went away and now it seems the helos do ASW as an after thought. I'm way out of date and could be way wrong, but that is what it looks like from the outside.
Edit: Detection versus localization. In my JO days, every BG had at least 2 or 3 small boys with tails in the water continously and S-3s for search/detection. Still had the tail ships during my DH tour but S-3s were becoming Sea Control squadrons and tankers. Localization was S-3s and helos. There were also always a couple friendly SSNs in the neighborhood.
Well, that is certainly a factor, I was just being a bit parochial towards my last platform !Lack of MAD on the P-8?
Anecdotal from several friends who are in Jax...am I wrong?What is your source on this?
Can we do an "Oprah Moment" here and be PURR-FECTLY honest? ASW will remain an atrophied skill-set until such time as there is/are one or more US-flagged, grey-hull "flaming datums" somewhere. Then we'll all have a "come to Jesus" moment...It's funny to still hear the term atrophy used when talking about our ASW capabilities. Sure, I guess it applies when we're talking about our Navy as a whole, but I'm guessing that nobody flying in the VP community today was around in the days when ASW was what you actually did on deployment. Can a skill you never really had become atrophied? It would be interesting to look at what ASW related training goes into the metrics of your SORTS report today vs. whatever the metrics were circa 1987.
Can we do an "Oprah Moment" here and be PURR-FECTLY honest? ASW will remain an atrophied skill-set until such time as there is/are one or more US-flagged, grey-hull "flaming datums" somewhere. Then we'll all have a "come to Jesus" moment...
Until then, overland ISR and all else that the P-3s and P-8s (and might I also add...BAMS UAV?) can and will do will be devoted to that. COCOMs call the shots with these HD/LD assets, and very few give a crap about water.
Just my $.02.
Absent the long-range (legacy P-3...future P-8 guys). you're all relegating it to the "Charlie's inside the wire!" construct. Too little...and too late. It's a "layered defense", yes? Who's doing the "outer layer"?For the VP guys, perhaps, but they're not the only ASW game in town, and other players (again, depending on coast/AOR) still practice it. As good as during the Cold War? Probably not, but all is not lost.
I was fairly confident that I could get the best possible results given a decent datum.