Soooooooo how is a decrease in y/y purchasing power not a pay cut? Again, none of this takes into account the increased out of pocket expenses for housing.
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Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps claims pay cuts would raise discipline
- Thread starter lowflier03
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Soooooooo how is a decrease in y/y purchasing power not a pay cut? Again, none of this takes into account the increased out of pocket expenses for housing.
There is no reduction in pay, which would be the definition of a cut. And increase out of pocket expenses for housing seems like a return to the older policy of only covering a percentage of housing instead of all of it, and by law no one gets their BAH reduced in their current station.
Bullshit.
Using that logic you could increase my pay a penny every year for 50 years and tell me I've gotten 50 consecutive pay raises. Meanwhile, inflation takes its toll.
Isn't your question answered here? Whether by design or by unintended consequence, the end result is a realized decrease in compensation.
As it does for everyone, though since our pay raises have often been higher than inflation the past decade or so it hasn't taken its toll on military pay as it has on the most the rest of Americans.
While your working is much more accurate, gotta love the English language, you could also argue that in fact compensation still continues to increase if you include all compensation like health care, the cost of which has risen far faster than inflation.
I'll assume that by trying to reframe the discussion you are agreeing that when my dollar bills can be exchanged for less then I'm getting my pay cut. Thanks. Glad we could agree on that. I can feel my discipline increasing already.
No, still not getting your pay cut. You can still make it rain at the club if you want, it will just take a few more singles to make worth your while.
Well, that's about as much internet dumbassery I can tolerate in a single day. Central bank policy is a primary driver of inflation, government doesn't inflate my pay check at the same rate. I'm not getting my pay cut. Riiiight.
Flash,
What is your point? Is the senior enlisted member of the USMC advocating for his personnel or his equipment? Is he taking a truthful look at the daily expenses a LCPL has to make or has he completely forgotten how shitty pay is as an E-3?
Get over your pedantic bickering and look at the big picture: Our congress/senate/executive branches of leadership are looking to shrink our military and reduce the current rate of benefit increases while continuing to pay those who sit on their ass and do nothing.
Which is harder: Go overseas, get shot at, collect shitty paycheck, return and enjoy higher suicide and divorce rates while being held to a higher (double) standard than 99% of Americans; or: Sit at home, collect welfare, get no drug screening, no responsibility, collect food stamps, happily continue to leech off those paying taxes?
When the E-3 in the trailer park is watching his neighbor in the trailer park spark a fatty, eat his steaks bought with SNAP card, and be back at home after a quick night in detox with nothing to fear but a few hours of community service picking trash, he may seriously reconsider sticking around to get ass-fucked by the big green (blue) weenie for another 4-6 years all for the "privilege" to "do more with less."
There is a serious morale problem in our service, and it will continue to devolve into a discipline problem unless we recognize and correct our priorities.
The service member fights the war, not the rifle (without the LCPL, it is useless) nor the boat/plane/electron.
Waste and acquisition excess would be a much better place to start on cutting the budget, but that hits too close to lobbyists/politicians.
We are really in danger of becoming the hollow force of the eighties that followed VietNam. Unfortunately history tends to repeat itself, usually at the cost of US military lives.
Pickle
What is your point? Is the senior enlisted member of the USMC advocating for his personnel or his equipment? Is he taking a truthful look at the daily expenses a LCPL has to make or has he completely forgotten how shitty pay is as an E-3?
Get over your pedantic bickering and look at the big picture: Our congress/senate/executive branches of leadership are looking to shrink our military and reduce the current rate of benefit increases while continuing to pay those who sit on their ass and do nothing.
Which is harder: Go overseas, get shot at, collect shitty paycheck, return and enjoy higher suicide and divorce rates while being held to a higher (double) standard than 99% of Americans; or: Sit at home, collect welfare, get no drug screening, no responsibility, collect food stamps, happily continue to leech off those paying taxes?
When the E-3 in the trailer park is watching his neighbor in the trailer park spark a fatty, eat his steaks bought with SNAP card, and be back at home after a quick night in detox with nothing to fear but a few hours of community service picking trash, he may seriously reconsider sticking around to get ass-fucked by the big green (blue) weenie for another 4-6 years all for the "privilege" to "do more with less."
There is a serious morale problem in our service, and it will continue to devolve into a discipline problem unless we recognize and correct our priorities.
The service member fights the war, not the rifle (without the LCPL, it is useless) nor the boat/plane/electron.
Waste and acquisition excess would be a much better place to start on cutting the budget, but that hits too close to lobbyists/politicians.
We are really in danger of becoming the hollow force of the eighties that followed VietNam. Unfortunately history tends to repeat itself, usually at the cost of US military lives.
Pickle
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Anytime I've interviewed a new sailor reporting aboard without a college degree, the GI bill was almost always mentioned as a reason for enlisting. Those with college degrees were mentioned steady paychecks in a bad economy and have a few years experience as a technician to put on their resumes.
I think all that stuff that you mention just piles on top of why they want to get out of dodge if they ever had a thought of making the military a career.
Small point of clarification, the hollow force was in the '70s. Things got much better real fast in the 80s. 83-89 was high clover compared to 73-79.
Thanks Wink,
For some reason I had the impression that 81-82 was low tide until the Reagan changes really kicked in. Need to do more research.
Pickle
For some reason I had the impression that 81-82 was low tide until the Reagan changes really kicked in. Need to do more research.
Pickle
Another victim of a public school education.
No wait, does that mean I am old enough to be ... "history"?
My point wasn't just to be an argumentative asshole or just plain pendantic, it was meant to highlight that the starting point used by the OP for the conversation was misleading at best. If we keep crying wolf or engage in hyperbole every time someone dares to speak an informed opinion when points like this are made then we won't be taken seriously when actual cuts are being made and those with valid arguments get lost after statements like the title of this thread. And then there are the basic points about just being correct and factual.
The main point remains, the SgtMaj of the USMC was not advocating for a salary cut but supporting a smaller pay raise than has happened in the past decade of war. Hard as it may be to believe those raises have made our pay compare pretty well to the civilian world especially when coupled with the benefits we receive. And before we get in a pissing contest about what we should get vs civilians remember that is still the comparison we are held to by the vast majority of the public and the one we ourselves engage in often.
To be brutally frank I don't quite agree with the 'shitty paycheck', while that E-3 is living in a trailer park because he got a chit to move out of the barracks he is still doing better than most of his contemporaries when he/she is making the equivalent of roughly $40k a year. Should he/she do even better? Good question, but where is the upper limit though? If we wanted to compensate based on relative danger of what is experienced then special ops and infantry would be making more than anyone else in the military, at least in wartime.
The best soldier still needs a decent weapon to use though.
From having heard and read the horror stories of the post-Vietnam, post-WWII and the 'inter-war' (1920's and 30's) state of the military I don't think we are looking at a similar 'hollow force' anytime soon. There haven't been riots on ships or bases, there isn't rampant drug use and we aren't using Model T's dressed in cardboard as tanks. Retention and recruitment are at very high levels and will probably remain so for the forseeable future with unemployment still high. There will be some challenges with some particular jobs like pilots and special operations folks as well as an overall 'drift' in the sense of mission since the wars are winding down but the future doesn't seem as grim as been painted by some.
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....and that number would also assume said E-3 is entitled to BAH.
....and how many E-3s do you know live off base?
A single LCpl iving in the barracks makes around $26k a year before taxes. Single Cpl and Sgts are also now required to stay in the barracks as well. That number is pretty generous and doesn't really reflect reality. I don't think there is going to be a huge morale issue, but I will say that the standard of living for Marines in the foreseeable future is going to get a whole lot shittier.