Another nail in the coffin of Old-School Naval Avaition..

[robav8r]

Like what?

NKO, the emphasis placed on Diversity initiatives and let's not forget Sexual Assault / Harassment training, reporting, tracking, logging, etc. The "culture" of Naval Aviation has moved away from treating grown men and women like adults
and focusing too much (IMHO) on people programs and initiatives that do little to bolster combat readiness and mission accomplishment.

 

[Renegade One]

The "culture" of Naval Aviation has moved away from treating grown men and women like adults...

Could it be because today's "grown men and women" don't all act like adults? The far too many "squeaky wheels" require the liberal application of "group grease". Truly, there was much of that same shit 40 years ago.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Could it be because today's "grown men and women" don't all act like adults? The far too many "squeaky wheels" require the liberal application of "group grease". Truly, there was much of that same shit 40 years ago.

Chicken or the egg... People tend to live up to the expectations you place upon them, no? You want to see and E-3 or and O-3 knock it out of the park, treat them like adults.

 

[robav8r]

Could it be because today's "grown men and women" don't all act like adults?

R1 - yeah, there is some of that. But as you well know, every generation has there share of ass clowns. I also think the micro-managing of CO's at the CDR level is not helping the matter.

 

[Renegade One]

Chicken or the egg... People tend to live up to the expectations you place upon them, no? You want to see and E-3 or and O-3 knock it out of the park, treat them like adults.

R1 - yeah, there is some of that. But as you well know, every generation has there share of ass clowns. I also think the micro-managing of CO's at the CDR level is not helping the matter.

All good points.
My biggest concern…and it may just be a "perception" on my part…is that there are "real victims" of (fill in the blank), and then there are the legions of folks who claim a "narrative of victimhood" as a first reaction to lack of success/desired outcomes in (fill in the blank), and sadly, neither COs nor "Big Navy" are allowed to sift out the former from the latter at a reasonable level in the chain of command (anywhere from LPO to CNO). The result is a constant need for…ta-da... TRAINING!
"What kind of training, sir?"
"I dunno…MORE training!"

Nothing says "It's not my fault!" quite like claiming:

• a poor command climate
• bad leadership
• a hostile work environment
• lack of mentorship
• hazing
• "Because I'm a (fill in the blank), I have to work twice as hard as (let's be honest…white males)"
• hazing
• inappropriate/involuntary call signs

Woe be unto the unit CO who ever says to a Legionnaire: "Hey…grow a thicker skin…learn how to get along…do your job, get your quals and quit whining." That's a call to a 1-800 number or a Congressional Inquiry waiting to happen.

 

[Flash]

I would say this is why you don't see what has happened to Naval Aviation. Being an E-3 guy and working with the Air Force isn't really the meat and potatoes of Naval Aviation so maybe your viewpoint is skewed.

EP-3's weren't the only aircraft I flew. Even today I have the fortune of working with plenty of current folks in my reserve job so I am not completely out of the loop.

NKO, the emphasis placed on Diversity initiatives and let's not forget Sexual Assault / Harassment training, reporting, tracking, logging, etc. The "culture" of Naval Aviation has moved away from treating grown men and women like adults and focusing too much (IMHO) on people programs and initiatives that do little to bolster combat readiness and mission accomplishment.

All the angst about all the NKO/diversity/harassment training/lectures/reporting is a bit overblown. It takes a fraction of the amount of our total time, and I get double since I am also a DoD civilian, and should have very minimal impact on real work. I am always amused when CDR Sal rants against the latest NKO/diversity/harassment training/lectures/reporting when the majority he posts about are voluntary.

 

[Recovering LSO]

All the angst about all the NKO/diversity/harassment training/lectures/reporting is a bit overblown. It takes a fraction of the amount of our total time

You been the OPSO or MO of a squadron recently? I'm a "glass half full" kinda guy (or at least trying to be more often), but your assessment is not grounded in reality - at least not as far as most AC operational squadrons.

 

[IRfly]

I would say this is why you don't see what has happened to Naval Aviation. Being an E-3 guy and working with the Air Force isn't really the meat and potatoes of Naval Aviation so maybe your viewpoint is skewed.

So we should check what the helo guys think?

 

[Flash]

You been the OPSO or MO of a squadron recently? I'm a "glass half full" kinda guy (or at least trying to be more often), but your assessment is not grounded in reality - at least not as far as most AC operational squadrons.

I am pretty sure wehave to meet the same NKO/GMT training requirements, to include the newer requirements than are more time intensive, you all do and while we can't get them all done in 20 mins it doesn't take us days and days. Or is there something more that you all do?

 

[jtmedli]

Woe be unto the unit CO who ever says to a Legionnaire: "Hey…grow a thicker skin…learn how to get along…do your job, get your quals and quit whining." That's a call to a 1-800 number or a Congressional Inquiry waiting to happen.

My first CO was a lot like that and it was my favorite quality about him.

 

[DanMa1156]

Pick your poison. The Marines have always been handover on uniformity. That's part of being a Marine. I honestly don't know why the Navy has such a hard-on for colored shirts, and though it's possible to go overboard, what's so hard about wearing black or green socks? They do look a bit more...cough...military...than gym socks.

The ironic part is that our uniform regulations for flight suits only permit "white" or "sage green" socks.

 

[DanMa1156]

I am pretty sure wehave to meet the same NKO/GMT training requirements, to include the newer requirements than are more time intensive, you all do and while we can't get them all done in 20 mins it doesn't take us days and days. Or is there something more that you all do?

I don't know your requirements, but I would honestly say that if you were to knock out all of the current (now largely cut-down from previous years) annual NKOs in a single sitting, it would take a full day; that also assumes you're on decent internet. On the boat, before they had the courses saved to the ship's hard drive... painfully slow.

 

[Pags]

So you lose one day doing NKOs? Seems like something that could be done during an SDO day pretty easily.
Don't like the internet speed on NMCI? Get a card reader at home. As someone who also has to do DAU courses on top of NKO my sympathy is minimal. Quit wanking and get it done.

 

[jtmedli]

All the angst about all the NKO/diversity/harassment training/lectures/reporting is a bit overblown. It takes a fraction of the amount of our total time, and I get double since I am also a DoD civilian, and should have very minimal impact on real work. I am always amused when CDR Sal rants against the latest NKO/diversity/harassment training/lectures/reporting when the majority he posts about are voluntary.

I don't know about a "fraction of our time". My squadron wasted what my math showed to be approx 700 man hours on ONE GMT because it was a mandatory 3 hour presentation. Not to mention the man hours wasted on doing the computer based ones. That's at least another 300 man hours every fiscal quarter (we do 2 per quarter to stay ahead and each one takes about 30 mins on avg) that could be spend turning a wrench and getting an AC up.

I think the problem that people have with it is the fact that th courses are a waste of time and topics ar downright insulting to anyone with a brain. If we were doing mandatory training on things like 'how to write a SITREP' or 'how not to massively fuckup/how to read your EVAL' or topics that actually helped someone better themselves then I think people would be more open to doing them.

 

[MIDNJAC]

So what is the current rule? My understanding was that the 2013 (IIRC) navadmin made all non-black t-shirts "organizational clothing" unless you were NSAWC or the Blues. Or more specifically, it made black t-shirts ok out in town, when any bag combo had always been organizational prior to that. Did that change at some point?