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No more DCOIC?

I think the additional 3 weeks would also help acclimate newly commissioned non-prior officer to the Navy/Military. 5 weeks would help ingrain things into your memory. Heck, several years into my commission and I know there are things I still don't know and I feel (this is just my opinion) more should have been covered at DCOIC or in some basic officer training. That's why during my designator specific training I was bombarding my shipmate with question after question, they received a commission after 10 years and 3 deployments on the enlisted side. Having a mentor might help, but you don't know what you don't know.
 
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I'm curious to see what was deemed necessary to add to the program. Do we think they are trying to get a little closer to OCS with discipline, military bearing, and leadership? Or Maybe they just figured they had a lot more information to put out. Thoughts?
 
donte9235 said:
I'm curious to see what was deemed necessary to add to the program. Do we think they are trying to get a little closer to OCS with discipline, military bearing, and leadership? Or Maybe they just figured they had a lot more information to put out. Thoughts?
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There is a stark difference in people who come out of DCO versus ODS. The difference is even more so for those who enter with no military experience.
 
Reservist said:
All of you are talking about other branches and comparing this DCO program to them as to why we should do this. I joined in the program specifically because it worked for my life and because it is so short....Army and Marines you are gone a damn year to be a reserve officer. It's crazy guys... The only people that can join that program are recent college grads - it is not a realistic recruiting pipeline for working people and reservists.
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Military training should be as long as the service determines it should be, not as long as it is convenient for the servicemember. I know that I am not telling you anything you don't know but training for Navy Reserve DCO's is paltry compared to pretty much every single other officer accession program in the US military, with the exception of staff/specialist types, I think increasing the amount of training will only improve things for the Navy.

Another thing that has not been pointed out is that this may actually save the Navy some money, by consolidating two or more officer accession programs into one saving on all the overhead associated with maintaining separate programs.

Reservist said:
Those other branches are looking for people too - in fact - several are so desperate for bodies that they have been pulling Navy Reservists for IA deployment since the mid 2000's.
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That has a lot less to do with recruiting and retention for the other services and a lot more to do with Navy policy to provide personnel for GWOT, because Navy leadership wanted us to make a contribution on the ground.

Reservist said:
The program we have works for what we are meant to do. There's room for improvement - sure.
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I am not so sure, I have had mixed dealings with DCO's in my reserve career. Most of those I have dealt with have been at the O-4/5 level but the lack of Navy experience is evident with some even at that level. At least by then even those who don't have a strong Navy background are pretty sharp even if they are still neophytes to a lot of Navy stuff. But what I have seen at the lower level has been a bit more mixed, with some awesome folks but others not so much.

Are Navy Reserve DCO's worth it to the Navy? Certainly, for no other reason that they get DCO's for really cheap. But that doesn't mean the Navy could spend a little more to get a better return on its investment.
 
Flash said:
Military training should be as long as the service determines it should be, not as long as it is convenient for the servicemember. I know that I am not telling you anything you don't know but training for Navy Reserve DCO's is paltry compared to pretty much every single other officer accession program in the US military, with the exception of staff/specialist types, I think increasing the amount of training will only improve things for the Navy.

Another thing that has not been pointed out is that this may actually save the Navy some money, by consolidating two or more officer accession programs into one saving on all the overhead associated with maintaining separate programs.



That has a lot less to do with recruiting and retention for the other services and a lot more to do with Navy policy to provide personnel for GWOT, because Navy leadership wanted us to make a contribution on the ground.



I am not so sure, I have had mixed dealings with DCO's in my reserve career. Most of those I have dealt with have been at the O-4/5 level but the lack of Navy experience is evident with some even at that level. At least by then even those who don't have a strong Navy background are pretty sharp even if they are still neophytes to a lot of Navy stuff. But what I have seen at the lower level has been a bit more mixed, with some awesome folks but others not so much.

Are Navy Reserve DCO's worth it to the Navy? Certainly, for no other reason that they get DCO's for really cheap. But that doesn't mean the Navy could spend a little more to get a better return on its investment.
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Thanks for your input Flash - you are sound, sane, and your points reasonable. I'm not budging on my side - but it's not because I disagree with what you are saying so much - it more that it drives me to a different place.

With others, I've hashed through the double standard for reservists and active duty on this post earlier in the discussion. I'm all for making things better but I'm realistic about what I think can be done to keep reservists on par with the active side. I accept there will always be gap.

Just out of curiosity - do your remember the old APG (advanced pay grade program) for enlisted back in the early 2000's? It worked - it addressed many of the training hick-ups that the modern DCO program is having and it could be a great model to look at for guidance on restructuring the DCO program that focuses on ways to increase effectiveness of training and readiness while having the lowest impact on reservists.

My two cents with the inevitable chasm between active and reserve is - Good caliber reservists will rise to the challenge when the time comes and pick up slack that they need to make up to keep up with the Active side when the times comes. That remains my position. I don't see a scenario where training ever keeps reservists on par with the active side. Recruiting the best people at the gate when the enter the Navy is what matters.

I do see scenarios where reserve training becomes too much a burden to recruit or retain sailors.

There is truth in the Navy wanting to stay relevant in a ground war in the history of the IA deployments. That is and has been going away for a few years now. There's also a lot of truth in the fact that the Army is addicted to IA sailors. They can't get enough of them to make up shortfalls in their own service's needs. The Navy definitely used that need to its advantage to keep relevant in GWOT but the reason the Navy could exploit the need was due to shortfalls in Army manning and recruiting capability. I say it tongue and cheek - but Recruiting - the struggle is real.

Recruiting and retention will become increasingly difficult in my assessment - not for all rates/specialties - but for many. Particularly for folks needing to obtain and maintain and TS/SCI. Let's face it - it's 2019 - people are smoking dope and chasing craigslist hook ups - not exactly TX material. There are lots of ways to address this issue but it is a real issue that impact recruiting.
 
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Reservist said:
Just out of curiosity - do your remember the old APG (advanced pay grade program) for enlisted back in the early 2000's? It worked - it addressed many of the training hick-ups that the modern DCO program is having and it could be a great model to look at for guidance on restructuring the DCO program that focuses on ways to increase effectiveness of training and readiness while having the lowest impact on reservists.
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This program had many many many problems. I experienced a lot of issues with them when they augmented into Iraq.

Either way, the reserve DCO program isnt going away.

I think the Navy needs to focus on keeping people past the 10 year mark. They struggle with that on both active and reserve. If the reserves are losing LCDRs coming from active duty they are letting tons of experience walk out.

Retention is more important in the long run imo.
 
bluemarlin04 said:
This program had many many many problems. I experienced a lot of issues with them when they augmented into Iraq.

Either way, the reserve DCO program isnt going away.

I think the Navy needs to focus on keeping people past the 10 year mark. They struggle with that on both active and reserve. If the reserves are losing LCDRs coming from active duty they are letting tons of experience walk out.

Retention is more important in the long run imo.
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We are on the same page with the retention part - I'm sure it's more important with respect to day to day relevance with the active side, but with reservists it matters a lot because it really takes time to get folks up to speed.

Once quick catch too - these reservists you worked with augmented -- that means they received bum rush training for a job they never trained for to begin with.... All augmentees did so the critique is fair in ways.
 
Reservist said:
Once quick catch too - these reservists you worked with augmented -- that means they received bum rush training for a job they never trained for to begin with.... All augmentees did so the critique is fair in ways.
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That is a fair statement.

One thing did stick out though was one reservist claimed she had a "law enforcement background"and signed up for a detainee ops mission. Turned out her background was a security guard at a hospital and her incompetence got her fired. She also got in trouble for taking the plates out of her body armor during pre deployment exercises because "they were heavy". And than in Iraq, I caught her walking around without plates in her body armor because "they were heavy" while escorting prisoners.

The problem was everyone remembers these idiots. No one remembers the guys who flawlessly intergrated and then moved on afterwards back to the reserves.
 
bluemarlin04 said:
One thing did stick out though was one reservist claimed she had a "law enforcement background"and signed up for a detainee ops mission. Turned out her background was a security guard at a hospital and her incompetence got her fired.
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This turd will get flushed by way of 2XFOS because, hopefully, this non-sense resulted in her receiving bad a FITREP from that MOB. A former 183X colleague of mine was 2XFOS because of a well deserved poor FITREP received while mobilized.

While your example might sound surprising, it's not. I served with a Reserve CWO telling people - myself included - that he was previously a SEAL. Having worked with SEALs and other SF types, I smelled a turd. Said turd eventually went to another unit. By chance, I bumped in to someone from said unit who was telling me these stories about the CWO, how he was a former SEAL and who was getting special consideration for multiple sets of ADT orders downrange to LATAM. That glitch was fixed with two emails: one to NSWC and the other to the turd's unit CO who was - not knowing the truth - vouching for the CWO to get the orders.

21344

Sometimes, turds take more than one flush and it's difficult to screen those who have the defect during the DCO and LDO process.
 
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