SWO Career Paths

[AllAmerican75]

Threadjack... but to get a bit further in the weeds, COLA plummeted a few years ago. It's better now but not where it was in the Golden Days.

Being "U/W a ton" ... there is some divergence between the aviator and SWO FDNF experience. A SWO in the MX Phase these days can easily spend 12-18++ months with zero days U/W. Guys on operational ships are doing 300-320 days/yr U/W easily. Over a 4-5 yr enlisted tour it all comes out in the wash but for SWOs it's feast or famine. Only mention this as a warning to the young guys on here picking ships... If you spend 2 years in drydock, partying in Tokyo every weekend, Japan is NOT a place to save money

I think the best FDNF experience for those guys looking for work-life balance are the DDGs in Rota. They have a pretty set schedule, Sixth Fleet is pretty hands off when it comes to training cycle stuff, and Espania is cheap. I know some dudes who pooled their OHA and lived in a huge villa looking at the water. Hell, they even had a groundskeeper that they didn't know about (Dude lived on the other end of the property and just showed up one day). Rota is definitely one of those choice assignments. Whatever you do, don't choose MOUNT WHITNEY, you'll end your tour with no hair and complex.

 

[Pags]

Whatever you do, don't choose MOUNT WHITNEY, you'll end your tour with no hair and complex.

But what if I'm currently a simpleton and want to seem more complex?

 

[AllAmerican75]

But what if I'm currently a simpleton and want to seem more complex?

I guess there's no way to fix that typo, eh?

 

[Marceli]

When do we need to pass the 2nd class swim? at OCS or can we do it after that?

 

[AllAmerican75]

When do we need to pass the 2nd class swim? at OCS or can we do it after that?

It really depends. There are some people who have never passed or even taken it. Technically, in order to be a boat officer (which is part of the OOD Underway qual) you need to pass it, but your ship and First Lieutenant will take care of that for you. You'll likely be told one day to report to the pool at Ye Local Naval Station and some AWs or BMs will administer the test.

It's not really a difficult test if you're a decent swimmer. The hardest parts are the high level water entry (about 10-15 feet) and the swim without goggles (which always irritates my eyes). Really, you can likely get away with only doing it once in your life if you never have any interest in doing VBSS or Riverine stuff.

 

[Aluroon]

You'll still make $ off of COLA, being underway a ton, and not having an American car.

COLA is down a ton. Years ago it was high three figures. Now its down to a few hundred bucks (I think like 310 or something in Yoko).

Threadjack... but to get a bit further in the weeds, COLA plummeted a few years ago. It's better now but not where it was in the Golden Days.

Being "U/W a ton" ... there is some divergence between the aviator and SWO FDNF experience. A SWO in the MX Phase these days can easily spend 12-18++ months with zero days U/W. Guys on operational ships are doing 300-320 days/yr U/W easily. Over a 4-5 yr enlisted tour it all comes out in the wash but for SWOs it's feast or famine. Only mention this as a warning to the young guys on here picking ships... If you spend 2 years in drydock, partying in Tokyo every weekend, Japan is NOT a place to save money

It's definitely possible to end up on a ship that's stuck in in drydock for a long period of time. Those tend to be fewer and further between on FDNF-J than stateside, but it does happen. As a rule though they're doing a lot better with screening new SWOS going to ships entering long SRAs. The PERS effort is not to send any new ensigns to ships that aren't operational or going to be operational really quickly. Which definitely doesn't have unintended consequences when ships don't have JOs to fill billets... that make the drydock experience shitter than ever before in many cases... not that anyone cares because quality of life is great, retention is super good and there are no problems in the community.

Either way, on a 30 month initial tour you'll see at least a couple patrols even on a ship coming out of maintenance and into basic.

It really depends. There are some people who have never passed or even taken it. Technically, in order to be a boat officer (which is part of the OOD Underway qual) you need to pass it, but your ship and First Lieutenant will take care of that for you. You'll likely be told one day to report to the pool at Ye Local Naval Station and some AWs or BMs will administer the test.

It's not really a difficult test if you're a decent swimmer. The hardest parts are the high level water entry (about 10-15 feet) and the swim without goggles (which always irritates my eyes). Really, you can likely get away with only doing it once in your life if you never have any interest in doing VBSS or Riverine stuff.

2nd class swim is pretty straight forward as long as you're comfortable in the water. Mostly coordinated through (as American says) either your 1st LT (Deck division officer) or your BMC, though usually in my experience you have to plug them about it vice them being ahead of the game and scheduling it for you. It was possible to do it at OCS during the Candio phase when I went through, but most classes didn't, and I heard it fell out of favor.

You had to pass the 3rd class at OCS when I was there.

 

[Brett327]

SWO still sounds horrible. Just saying.

 

[AllAmerican75]

SWO still sounds horrible. Just saying.

There's a reason that I and many of my compatriots got out of the community.

Mostly coordinated through (as American says) either your 1st LT (Deck division officer) or your BMC, though usually in my experience you have to plug them about it vice them being ahead of the game and scheduling it for you.

The only reason mine was ahead of the curve is because I was in the VBSS pipeline on my first ship and then I had to manage both deck division and the VBSS program on my second. Also, all personnel going to a PC must pass their 2nd Class Swim. At least that's how it works in theory.

 

[azguy]

SWO still sounds horrible. Just saying.

As an ENS... yup. But I'm surprised to hear you making this comparison. Ship CO vs Squadron CO. Pretty different experiences.

 

[Brett327]

As an ENS... yup. But I'm surprised to hear you making this comparison. Ship CO vs Squadron CO. Pretty different experiences.

My experience was overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Griz882]

You had to pass the 3rd class at OCS when I was there.

3rd class swimmer in a 1st class ocean doesn't seem like a positive to me.

 

[mksparkman22]

I would take a DDG that's an independent deployer (all the ships in Rota, a few in each fleet concentration area) over anything. You'll get more sea time (crucial for getting qualified) and won't have to play silly strike group games (which can kill your chances of getting qualified on time). If you can't get an independent deployer DDG, snag a "small" gator (LSD or LPD). They have a simpler qual process (not as many combat systems).

O6 commands (CGs, LPDs, and LHDs/LHAs) are larger, which means more ensigns jockeying for time doing UNREPS, flight quarters, etc. Ideally, you want to be 1 of 2-3 ensigns showing up to the ship about the same time which is enough to motivate the CO/XO/Dept Heads to get you qualified but small enough to actually manage getting you qualified.

As an ensign, getting qualified is the name of the game and should be your top focus. Once you have a SWO pin, you can focus on cool things and talk more openly about career options. For a second tour (provided you want to keep doing SWO stuff as a career), I highly recommend doing a tour on a PC or Minesweep. It will give you an immense amount of leadership experience as well as knowledge of how an entire ship functions and how the DH and XO/CO life really is.

If you decide you don't want to do SWO stuff for the rest of your career, chose a second tour and shore tour which will set you up for success in whatever it is you DO want to do after you leave the SWO community (either through redesignation or punching out of the service).

I've gotten advice from many former SWO's to try and get a DDG that is an independent deployer. When I get to ship selection at OCS, how will I know if the ship is independent or attached to a strike group? I already know all Rota ships are independent as you said, my question refers more to the other fleet concentration areas.

 

[AllAmerican75]

I've gotten advice from many former SWO's to try and get a DDG that is an independent deployer. When I get to ship selection at OCS, how will I know if the ship is independent or attached to a strike group? I already know all Rota ships are independent as you said, my question refers more to the other fleet concentration areas.

The best way to do that is ask the SWOs who are on staff at OTCN. They should be able to reach out and figure out who is who in the Fleet. If you can't find any of the information, try to look for billets on BMD ships (they always indepently deploy) or FDNF ships (many are independent deployers). Going to Japan, Rota, Pearl Harbor, or Mayport will increase the likelihood that you can find an independent deployer. Most of the DDGs in San Diego, Norfolk, and the PACNW are attached to the strike groups and CVNs homeported nearby.

 

[Gatordev]

You can also Google "Carrier Strike Group x" and replace the x with any numeral. You'll have to do some sleuthing, but you'll be able to find out which ships belong to each CSG pretty quickly, and then be able to figure out which ships in a given list aren't part of a CSG from that.

Although AllAmerican's way is probably quicker, I personally tend to over-research things when they're life-changing so I'm armed with as much knowledge as I can have.

 

[Aluroon]

The best way to do that is ask the SWOs who are on staff at OTCN. They should be able to reach out and figure out who is who in the Fleet. If you can't find any of the information, try to look for billets on BMD ships (they always indepently deploy) or FDNF ships (many are independent deployers). Going to Japan, Rota, Pearl Harbor, or Mayport will increase the likelihood that you can find an independent deployer. Most of the DDGs in San Diego, Norfolk, and the PACNW are attached to the strike groups and CVNs homeported nearby.

This is good advice. This isn't quite as true as it used to be (on the BMD side), but it's the best you'll get. The trend in recent years (at least in ships headed out to 7th fleet) is that BMD ships deploy with the Strike Group then occasionally split off if required to source various BMD missions that might arise. As more and more BMD assets have entered the fleet (especially FDNF) the trend of dedicated BMD deployers has become less common.

Some of the guidance on standing missions has also shifted over time.

Also keep in mind that with rare exceptions (ROTA) ships slated to be independent can become Strike Group escorts, and vice versa. USS Last Ship was slated to deploy with the Strike Group, was late getting out of the yards, and shifted to a ridiculous independent deployment to Europe, with some other poor sap rotating in to take their place with the Strike Group.

Finally, even ships attached to the Strike Group may regularly split off, depending on your AOR. We were 'attached' to RRSG most of last year, but we spent about half the time doing independent operations, and the less said about TR's escorts this deployment the better.

Outside of ROTA almost all of those are rolls of the dice. You can try to weight the dice more favorably, but still the chance that your best laid plans explode. Generally speaking though, if your goal is sea time, it's hard to go wrong with any Japan or Rota based CG or DDG. Our OPTEMP has been 200+ days underway a year pretty consistently, and this year we're looking at 240+.