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SWO Career Paths

BigRed389

BigRed389

Registered User
None
AllAmerican75 said:
That DH bonus is about to be insane. That's if PERS-41 will admit there's a problem, which they've always been reluctant to do. I was one of the last YGs to do the baby SWOS, 30 month tour w/ ASAT, then 18 month tour pipeline. That 30 month tour was rough on people. Luckily, my XO was a saint and worked to get me off the ship 6 months early. I can't imagine that this new move to promise near-endless sea time is going to be good for retention.

I really think we need to adopt a career path similar to the way the Royal Navy and many of our partner nations do theirs. You qualify as a jack-of-all-trades during your first tour and then choose operations/combat systems or engineering for the rest of your career. That way you get folks who are extremely proficient ship drivers and warfighters and folks who can run the plant and manage maintenance with their eyes closed. It takes two different mindsets and not everybody can do everything.
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It's even more of a split than that.

The RN (and everybody else using their model) splits it into Ops, Combat Systems, and Engineering.
The Ops guys focus on ship driving and warfighting/tactics.
They have Weapons Engineering and Marine Engineering Officers to oversee C/S and Engineering.

Their enlisted sailors are also more firmly split between technicians/maintainers and operators/watchstanders.
 
AllAmerican75

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
BigRed389 said:
It's even more of a split than that.

The RN (and everybody else using their model) splits it into Ops, Combat Systems, and Engineering.
The Ops guys focus on ship driving and warfighting/tactics.
They have Weapons Engineering and Marine Engineering Officers to oversee C/S and Engineering.

Their enlisted sailors are also more firmly split between technicians/maintainers and operators/watchstanders.
Click to expand...

That's even smarter. We should definitely take a page from their book.
 
Bergers2short

Bergers2short

Well-Known Member
None
Aluroon said:
They're (and you're) completely right that more time at sea produces more capable officers on warships, but I'm really curious to see just how many SWOs are going to be left standing when we're talking about a 4-1 ratio of sea to shore time for JOs (over your first 10 years), especially given what looks like a looming shortfall in JOs signing for department head as they've missed the mark for the number of JOs signing department head every year since YG2011 and have recently rolled out a bunch of new DH billets to shove all the excess from YG 2008/2009/2010.
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::Heavy Sarcasm:: Obviously, the answer is that everyone just needs to do a stint in CIP (Career Intermission Program) during their first 10 years. That way, the Navy doesn't have to pay them for shore duty. You're welcome, taxpayers!

Since female SWOs have always been pitched the 1st shore duty pregnancy plan, I'm sure the Navy thought about the ramifications of sea staff shore duty on them and on everyone else fighting for a non-deployable shore duty tour.
 
Aluroon

Aluroon

SWO
Since female SWOs have always been pitched the 1st shore duty pregnancy plan, I'm sure the Navy thought about the ramifications of sea staff shore duty on them and on everyone else fighting for a non-deployable shore duty tour.
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Lots of unintended consequences. YG 16 is, I think, going to be particularly bad on the retention side in the long run as the 1st tour MCM/LCS/CVN change resulted in half of their slates for 2nd tours being on those platforms to fill billets that are notionally undesirable. Again, another change that was probably good in principle, but which is basically a giant fuck you to them as it's a 250% increase in such billets for 2nd tour divos from YG 15.

Other unintended consequences are that the change disproportionately hits male SWOs, since females can't go to sweeps. Since females statistically retain much less frequently than males (likely to get worse with the navy removing more and more shore tour opportunities), it's just another hit on a YG that's coupled with what is a generally declining retention rate as requirements become more odious (RFSA, basic phase changes), shore opportunities decline, and the economy / civilian job market being especially competitive right now.

But hey, no problems. The slide they sent out said retention was at an all time high.... in 2009...
 
Jim123

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
AllAmerican75 said:
Dude, they've been saying retention's not an issue for the last 10 years, and yet the blood money bonus keeps going up, up, up.
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I read that last bit in my head in the voice of Mick Jagger.

"To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!"
 
AllAmerican75

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
Riem2080 said:
Would you be able to provide specifics? For us newcomers without any first-hand knowledge about which would be best for qualification.
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I would take a DDG that's an independent deployer (all the ships in Rota, a few in each fleet concentration area) over anything. You'll get more sea time (crucial for getting qualified) and won't have to play silly strike group games (which can kill your chances of getting qualified on time). If you can't get an independent deployer DDG, snag a "small" gator (LSD or LPD). They have a simpler qual process (not as many combat systems).

O6 commands (CGs, LPDs, and LHDs/LHAs) are larger, which means more ensigns jockeying for time doing UNREPS, flight quarters, etc. Ideally, you want to be 1 of 2-3 ensigns showing up to the ship about the same time which is enough to motivate the CO/XO/Dept Heads to get you qualified but small enough to actually manage getting you qualified.

As an ensign, getting qualified is the name of the game and should be your top focus. Once you have a SWO pin, you can focus on cool things and talk more openly about career options. For a second tour (provided you want to keep doing SWO stuff as a career), I highly recommend doing a tour on a PC or Minesweep. It will give you an immense amount of leadership experience as well as knowledge of how an entire ship functions and how the DH and XO/CO life really is.

If you decide you don't want to do SWO stuff for the rest of your career, chose a second tour and shore tour which will set you up for success in whatever it is you DO want to do after you leave the SWO community (either through redesignation or punching out of the service).
 
HSalt

HSalt

Well-Known Member
AllAmerican75 said:
If you can't get an independent deployer DDG, snag a "small" gator (LSD or LPD). They have a simpler qual process (not as many combat systems).
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Thanks for the insightful response. I thoroughly enjoyed qualifying ESWS on an LPD and would definitely recommend the platform. Interesting operations with the Marines, a moderately sized wardroom, and at least in my experience some pretty nice port visits.

That being said, there are way more CRUDES in the fleet. Sounds like DDG homeported away from a carrier or amphib are solid choices.
 
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