The last possible day before Thanksgiving? Yeah that sounds about right lol
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OCS 02Nov20 SNA/SNFO (Pilot/NFO) Board
- Thread starter kyleerlich
- Start date
nyynyg
Member
Can you share what you think that specific criteria is here?
It’s not specific, as exOfficerRec has said numerous times, it’s most qualified. Each member of the board looks at packages differently, some are all about numbers, but others are more impacted by the personal/motivational statements.
Source: current and prior CO both sat selection boards while at PERS.
And this is why I have a theory at all.
You say it is not specific but you give two examples of board members selecting on different and specific criteria or did I read that wrong?
Also, Where are your stats on the Excel? Disappointed.
Define and quantify most qualified.
If there were no specifics to selection, on what criteria were we selected?
You say it is not specific but you give two examples of board members selecting on different and specific criteria or did I read that wrong?
And herein lies the problem. If it's not consistent between panel members, what is consistent? Hence my own theory.
Also, Where are your stats on the Excel? Disappointed.
Best thing you can do to get selected is to not leave a single stone unturned when it comes to your package. Push every button, pull every lever. If your scores and GPA are low (if even if your scores are stellar), find other ways to make it better. Go out and get some flight hours/pilot license.... and even your boating license. Submit any documents that you can to advocate for yourself. I included my hockey coaching certificates, FAA pilot certificate, my formation flying wing card, proof of volunteer involvement, commemorative air force pilot documents, boating license, anything I could. Surround yourself with active/retired pilots/NFOs who have been there and done that. I'm sure they would be happy to help you with a rec letter. The pilot community is known for paying it forward. Be sincere with your motivational statement. Have multiple people review it. We have close to a year in many cases to put these packages together. There is no excuse to not make it as good as possible, especially when we are able to include any documents we would like in our package.
Put yourself in their shoes. If they see that you are doing everything you can to make yourself stand out.... it will show how much you want this opportunity, even if your scores aren't as good as others. Your enthusiasm can carry you
Put yourself in their shoes. If they see that you are doing everything you can to make yourself stand out.... it will show how much you want this opportunity, even if your scores aren't as good as others. Your enthusiasm can carry you
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Forgedinwater
Well-Known Member
I'll be honest, I wasn't even away you could submit things like that. I have several vocational certificates that I otherwise would have included. My recruiter literally just told me 2 LORs (I did submit 3), trsnscripts; and a motivational statement; he did write down some other involvements on my application, but he made it seem like it was pretty strict about what could even be included.
I just asked my recruiter if I could include them and she gave me the green light.
Absolutely,
We know people get selected with ASTB minimums (5/6/6), but some don't get selected with high ASTB scores so is it all about the ASTB?
No.
We know people get selected with low GPA's and some don't get selected with a very good GPA, so is it all about GPA?
No.
We can say the same for any objective criteria under the sun so why are some selected and others are not when objectively one candidate is "most qualified", when another is objectively less qualified but is selected?
My theory is that there are criteria (or what I call specifics) for each board member that if they are going to select a candidate they need to check off these specific criteria or they're not going to select the candidate, regardless of ASTB, GPA, etc. I think the way this is done mentally is similar to a flow chart, if you get a yes, continue on to the next criteria. If the answer leans toward a no, we start to consider other factors or criteria like objective numbers much sooner in the process.
Criteria #1: Administrative, and Easy No's
Is the applicant worth my time to evaluate from a high altitude perspective, properly filled out application, waivers (to include morality, felonies etc), clerical or administrative errors. This can often form an immediate "no" pile for any criteria the board wishes to make a hard cut-off for, moral waivers, hard cut-offs like low GPA or ASTB scores (hasn't been done in a while according to OffRec) etc. Maybe there is something that is a glaring no to the board member.
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Criteria #2: Desire To Join The Navy
Is the applicant clearly interested in joining the Navy. Is this clearly stated and quantified in their application? First and foremost we're joining the Navy, not the aviation community. The applicant needs to show interest in the military branch because if you fail flight school or get hit with NAMI and fail a flight physical you're selecting a different career in the Navy, or getting out completely.
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Criteria #3: Officer Aptitude
Is the applicant clearly interested, capable, and competent to serve in an officer capacity and be a leader? Has the applicant demonstrated leadership in their application, offices held in extra curricular activities, captain of sports teams, management/leadership in jobs, program leads, etc.
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Criteria #4: Desire To Be In The Aviation Career
Does the applicant express a desire to be a Navy pilot/NFO, and why? Does the applicant have the right attitude that would fit in with being a part of the Navy aviator community? What is the applicants disposition to failure or being a part of a community that is constantly being evaluated? Is this person a good fit, or not? Would I want this person as my own wingman?
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Criteria #5: Objective Scores That Quantify Aptitudes
Does the applicant have scores that match the previous criteria, detract from the application, or add to the candidates overall position in the board. Pretty self explanatory. This helps the board member quantify whether a selected applicant will make it through flight school.
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Criteria #6: How Does This Candidate Stack Against Others?
Based on the previously mentioned criteria, does the candidate rate higher or lower from criteria 2-5. Candidates rating higher in Criteria 2 may be placed above candidates rated higher in Criteria 5. Likewise, candidates with a low Criteria 3 or 4 but very high Criteria 5 may be placed lower and receive a non-selection because they show no desire, or aptitude. Their ASTB cannot carry them through with such large deficiencies in more important criteria's. If someone with all 9's doesn't show leadership, aptitude, or strong desire to be in the Navy, or doesn't appear to be a good fit for the community, why choose them?
That's my theory on selection. There's probably things I forgot or important aspects I may have missed but that's the gist of it.
The specifics I was referring to was more to a specific category like a check in a box before moving on to the next important category, not necessarily certain objective cut-offs or minimums. I think it's a process that each board members goes through on their own. I think the ASTB and other objective scores help validate the other criteria for selection. This is a mental process that is done rapidly for each candidate. But if you hit a snag higher up on the criteria list, that's not a good sign. I think we look at ASTB and other objective numbers as being the first criteria and I think that's completely upside-down from reality during the selection process.
If you think about the criteria I've listed, you've also written a pretty good motivational statement IMHO...
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Coriolanus
Pro-Rec SNA
There’s also just the reason the military makes wowed decisions that only make sense to a few. Any prior service or currently enlisted person will know this.
side note, anyone see a movie called “Bridges at Toko-ri”? Pretty good naval aviation movie imo, they footage they used is pretty good.
side note, anyone see a movie called “Bridges at Toko-ri”? Pretty good naval aviation movie imo, they footage they used is pretty good.
My grandpa was a former F9F Cougar driver. Showed me that movie when i was little! You should read the book if you haven't already. Its great
Ghost SWO, after reading your theory, we are basically on the same page. By saying there’s nothing specific, I mean there is no baseline of “if you meet all of these criteria you are guaranteed to be selected”. Each board member has their own subjective criteria of what weighs more heavily to them than it might for others. So, yes, there are specifics, but not a standard for every board, other than meeting the requirements of the program authorizations.
As far as my scores, they’ll be uploaded eventually.
As far as my scores, they’ll be uploaded eventually.
Coriolanus
Pro-Rec SNA
um... the excel sheet look destroyed again lol
Coriolanus
Pro-Rec SNA
Fixed! Just had to restore to a former versionCan someone fix this for me? Lol