OCS 03Nov2023 SNA/SNFO Board

[pcola478]

If you have a pro Y and then take the ASTB again that invalidates your previous scores which then is supposed to invalidate any pro recs you currently have as the data that you were selected on has changed. If you hadn't received a score that you felt comfortable declining and NRC found out you retook the ASTB they would have had to invalidate your selection.

So if I take it again before the decision is made in December, or shortly after that, that would invalidate a Pro Rec Y? I pitched that idea to him yesterday but he hasn’t answered yet

 

[pcola478]

When I went down the same mental rabbit hold I used my ASTB retake as the deciding factor. Of course I knew deep down all I wanted was pilot but I didn’t want to turn down NFO and get LASIK unless I could get an 8 or 9 PFAR, ideally a 9.

If you’re unable to retest before you make your choice then my best advise would be to absolutely follow your heart - especially since you still have a couple years before you age out which is plenty of time to get picked up for pilot. But only do so if you’re confident you can get a 9 PFAR (assuming you’re selected for NFO and have to turn it down).

In the off chance you’re not picked up for NFO then that will make your life a lot easier and an 8 PFAR should do.

What’s also nice about your case is that if it was only a paperwork issue that put you in this position then that’s easy to explain if you have to decline NFO and shouldn’t make you look bad. In my case my vision disqualified me so had I done my own research from the beginning and not listened to my recruiter then that entire charade could’ve been avoided.

Just know that if you have to decline NFO you’ll have to write a formal letter explaining yourself and it’s expected you greatly improve your application the next time around. For me that was better ASTB scores, a PPL, and a couple more letters of rec. But let’s be honest a 9 PFAR is likely all the convincing they need.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks so much for the thorough insight! I definitely want to retake the ASTB to use that as a deciding factor. I feel confident I can score higher because my first attempt was before I really wanted to take it, and after working a 24 hour shift with no sleep. I can probably add a few more flight hours, as well.

Again, really appreciate your thoughts and experience with each of those factors

 

[pcola478]

There are a few stories somewhere around this site about other applicants denying NFO and later getting selected as SNA, so it is definitely possible. Not sure how much denying a chance to commission will hurt you though.

If you really want pilot then I'd say go for it. Is your end goal ultimately to be a pilot or to be an officer in aviation? If I were in your position, I would be fine with NFO since my main goal is to be an officer, but you probably have different goals than me.

There is also another story I read here about how one guy was NFO and applied to switch to pilot. If I remember correctly, he said that like 6 NFOs applied and 4 of them were accepted, or something like that. So perhaps it's not as "rare" as people make it out to be? Also, a year or 2 ago I think I had a conversation with a user named TwoScoops who mentioned that he was originally NFO and switched to pilot.

Yep, I’ve seen the older threads regarding the NFO to pilot switch. I’ll see if I can dig up more on TwoScoops’ experience. I agree it may not be as rare as it’s made out to be, still feel a little uneasy putting my eggs in that basket right off the bat.

 

[Mil3s]

Have really gone down a mental rabbit hole over the past couple of weeks since putting in for NFO due to the vision paperwork issue. Gut is screaming at me to withdraw (if possible) or decline NFO, and apply SNA in March after retaking the ASTB and improving my 57 7/7/8.
Called recruiter earlier who gave me the spiel about how I should apply now for SNFO and later I can "easily" transfer to SNA. He also said he can't withdraw my current application and that I should just keep those cool uniforms in mind and think about it some more. ?

Honestly you should just follow your heart, if you want to be a SNA, just decline the SNFO.. it’s your choice they can’t make you do anything yet technically since you aren’t obligated to go. Just wait till result’s come out because maybe on the off chance you aren’t selected for NFO then you won’t have to deal with that issue and can just reapply on the next board for SNA after getting ur vision corrected. This is a major life decision and I personally feel that if you are putting in so much work and effort to get in as a SNA then don’t settle for anything else, unless it’s like your last available board or something drastic like that.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

So if I take it again before the decision is made in December, or shortly after that, that would invalidate a Pro Rec Y? I pitched that idea to him yesterday but he hasn’t answered yet

Correct, unfortunately many OR's aren't really true OR's that haven't gone through the actual OR school to hear those that administer the ASTB talk about the do's and don't's. The board is making a selection based on what is in front of them, now if you were to retake and get better scores they may just not worry about it, but if you by chance score lower (which has happened) that is a different situation.

Thanks so much for the thorough insight! I definitely want to retake the ASTB to use that as a deciding factor. I feel confident I can score higher because my first attempt was before I really wanted to take it, and after working a 24 hour shift with no sleep. I can probably add a few more flight hours, as well.

Again, really appreciate your thoughts and experience with each of those factors

I usually tell people with a 7 to give it one shot for SNA before retaking, you do have a chance to see if those getting picked at this board are only 8's and 9's or if it is opening up again.

Yep, I’ve seen the older threads regarding the NFO to pilot switch. I’ll see if I can dig up more on TwoScoops’ experience. I agree it may not be as rare as it’s made out to be, still feel a little uneasy putting my eggs in that basket right off the bat.

There are several on here that have done it, just poke around, just because a handful apply for a few few spots doesn't mean it is rare as several things have to line up and be done. No ethical recruiter will tell you to take SNFO if you want to be a SNA because you can just switch later.

Never apply for or accept a designator you won't be happy doing for the next 4-20+ years.

 

[Mil3s]

Correct, unfortunately many OR's aren't really true OR's that haven't gone through the actual OR school to hear those that administer the ASTB talk about the do's and don't's. The board is making a selection based on what is in front of them, now if you were to retake and get better scores they may just not worry about it, but if you by chance score lower (which has happened) that is a different situation.

I usually tell people with a 7 to give it one shot for SNA before retaking, you do have a chance to see if those getting picked at this board are only 8's and 9's or if it is opening up again.

There are several on here that have done it, just poke around, just because a handful apply for a few few spots doesn't mean it is rare as several things have to line up and be done. No ethical recruiter will tell you to take SNFO if you want to be a SNA because you can just switch later.

Never apply for or accept a designator you won't be happy doing for the next 4-20+ years.

Now I’m not sure if this is technically correct or not but someone in another thread I was talking to was told by his recruiter that this coming December board would have a good amount of pilot slots being assigned due to it being the first board of the new fiscal year and due to the new slots / quotas for the fiscal year that the first board would have a higher selection rate / availability.

 

[jacobsolo]

If you have a pro Y and then take the ASTB again that invalidates your previous scores which then is supposed to invalidate any pro recs you currently have as the data that you were selected on has changed. If you hadn't received a score that you felt comfortable declining and NRC found out you retook the ASTB they would have had to invalidate your selection.

That makes sense but my recruiter let me do it lol. I think it’s because of how confident I was that I’d improve my score given that my first scores were on a whim with no knowledge of what the test consisted of.

 

[jacobsolo]

Yep, I’ve seen the older threads regarding the NFO to pilot switch. I’ll see if I can dig up more on TwoScoops’ experience. I agree it may not be as rare as it’s made out to be, still feel a little uneasy putting my eggs in that basket right off the bat.

When I did my research and asked around, it seems that it’s not necessarily rare (if only 5 guys apply a year and all get selected then it makes it sound easy) but it necessitates good timing. Several current and past aviators told me that the switch requires a lot of things to line up in your naval career which is hard to guarantee. Moreover you need to be a really good NFO to be competitive for the switch.

Therefore, it is very ill-advised to take NFO with the idea that you’ll for sure switch to pilot later. Only take NFO if you’ll be happy doing that for 8 years.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Now I’m not sure if this is technically correct or not but someone in another thread I was talking to was told by his recruiter that this coming December board would have a good amount of pilot slots being assigned due to it being the first board of the new fiscal year and due to the new slots / quotas for the fiscal year that the first board would have a higher selection rate / availability.

Everything that person was told is false and the recruiter doesn't understand how officer recruiting and quotas work.

They start picking for the next FY in April +/- a month which means this could be the last board for FY 24 selections given when the next board is. They take the total number of spots and divide them across the boards and if there is an adjustment when hard goals come out they take that difference and spread that out across the boards as well. The board goals are about 140-150% over what is needed to ship to OCS, so they are always ahead of what they really need.

Hard goals come out anywhere between Nov to Feb so this board may or may not have the adjusted goal numbers.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yep, I’ve seen the older threads regarding the NFO to pilot switch. I’ll see if I can dig up more on TwoScoops’ experience. I agree it may not be as rare as it’s made out to be, still feel a little uneasy putting my eggs in that basket right off the bat.

Take a look at this thread and the comment by a senior aviator regarding SNFO to SNA.

NFO to Pilot in the Navy or Air Force

Can anyone give insights to how Student NFO on strike jet platform from the Navy can wing as Pilot, in the Navy or the Air Force, either by going Pilot training to double wing after completing the first NFO sea tour or switching during Intermediate/Advanced training as WSO or EWO? Navy seems to...

www.airwarriors.com

 

[pcola478]

@Mil3s @jacobsolo @exNavyOffRec
Thanks all for your advice, I've been soaking it all in. I'm going to go with my gut and heart at this point. I'm not comfortable committing to something for 8 years of my life (let alone between 30-40 years old) without at least giving SNA a shot. That's the entire reason I set out on this journey. And felt like I had a pretty strong application for this board if it weren't for this vision documentation.

@exNavyOffRec You really think I have a shot with a 7 PFAR? In your experience, how do the numbers trend for the early spring board? Recruiter seems to think I'm a "big fish in a small pond" currently but will be a "small fish in a big pond" in March due to a lot more applicants? Though I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

 

[pcola478]

When I did my research and asked around, it seems that it’s not necessarily rare (if only 5 guys apply a year and all get selected then it makes it sound easy) but it necessitates good timing. Several current and past aviators told me that the switch requires a lot of things to line up in your naval career which is hard to guarantee. Moreover you need to be a really good NFO to be competitive for the switch.

Therefore, it is very ill-advised to take NFO with the idea that you’ll for sure switch to pilot later. Only take NFO if you’ll be happy doing that for 8 years.

Yeah, that's the only thing I'm a little confused about is the timing. So definitely don't want that to be plan A without going for SNA first.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

@Mil3s @jacobsolo @exNavyOffRec
Thanks all for your advice, I've been soaking it all in. I'm going to go with my gut and heart at this point. I'm not comfortable committing to something for 8 years of my life (let alone between 30-40 years old) without at least giving SNA a shot. That's the entire reason I set out on this journey. And felt like I had a pretty strong application for this board if it weren't for this vision documentation.

@exNavyOffRec You really think I have a shot with a 7 PFAR? In your experience, how do the numbers trend for the early spring board? Recruiter seems to think I'm a "big fish in a small pond" currently but will be a "small fish in a big pond" in March due to a lot more applicants? Though I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

7 is a toss up but you never know, now if you are concerned about only getting one shot due to age study and retake, if you were a 6 I would say retake based on averages over time.

One cannot predict how many applicants there will or will not be, for each board, there is no logical reason for there to be more applicants so there is no way to predict more applicants.

 

[pcola478]

R

7 is a toss up but you never know, now if you are concerned about only getting one shot due to age study and retake, if you were a 6 I would say retake based on averages over time.

One cannot predict how many applicants there will or will not be, for each board, there is no logical reason for there to be more applicants so there is no way to predict more applicants.

Roger, thank you! Gonna study again and aim for those 9s.

 

[Mil3s]

R

Roger, thank you! Gonna study again and aim for those 9s.

If you look at the all of the available past boards on the sheets document you can see a good amount of people have gotten in with 7s in PFAR some with even less ( especially in the last board but that board as we know was a single anomaly as of now since we don’t know the rate for the December board yet ) but if you look at the scores for this board and compare / calculate score average, I found a 7 on the PFAR to be around the 60-66%, so above average but not super crazy, but definitely a decent chance of being selected. But with that being said if you have the opportunity to get a higher score and retake then that would be highly recommended. This sort of lines up with what my recruiter told me when I tested and got a 7 in PFAR.