3 wire OK why?

[kmac]

Thanks A4s, although you haven't explained why the roll angle exists still for different hook-to-eyes if each individual cell can move, and the entire lens can rotate backward (vice sideways, like the FLOLS).

 

[petescheu]

Just use the force... that's all you need to know. That was hilarious Kbay

 

[Punk]

I'm referring to the roll angle associated with different hook-to-eye distances; not deck movement.

Sorry, that's what the first yes was answering. But that is a good question about the individual cell movement.

 

[A4sForever]

Thanks A4s, although you haven't explained why the roll angle exists still for different hook-to-eyes if each individual cell can move, and the entire lens can rotate backward (vice sideways, like the FLOLS).

I don't know the IFLOLS system, but I would imagine a "backward rotation" would only relate to the "basic angle" ... like the older Fresnel Lens system.

Not sure if I understand exactly what you're looking for, but let me try. The roll-angle is different for each A/C type because you are striving for each A/C hook to clear the ramp at the same vertical distance above the ramp --- for safety and to target a particular wire --- used to be "3 wire". For example, the A-3 Skywarrior Whale sits a lot higher "pilot eye-position" than say, an A-7 Corsair II Fruit-fly. So you "roll" the lens outboard at a certain angle for whatever aircraft is in the groove or approaching nighttime "call the ball" distance astern. Picture the glideslop "beam" from a centered FLOLS ball perpective in 3 dimensions --- so when the FLOLS/Lens is "rolled outboard", the centered beam actually changes vertical position (slightly -- raises or lowers ) in the groove.

I know it's tough to describe and understand in words and a picture is always worth a thousand of those words. The bottom line is, the A-3 and the A-7 hooks clear the ramp by the same amount to catch the (3) wire --- but the pilots' eyes are sitting at different heights even while both are looking at a (hopefully) centered ball when they cross the ramp. I'll try to find a picture --- I know there's one out there .... or maybe type a thousand words.

 

[mules83]

Same thing with PAPI (precision approach path indicator). A C172 on glidepath shows two red and two white while a larger airliner shows three white, one red. The larger plane is still on glidepath, but since the cockpit is so much higher, it shows high. The main gear of the 747 and C172 are still at the same place somewhat.

 

[Fly Navy]

Same thing with PAPI I believe. A C172 on glidepath shows two red and two white while a larger airliner shows three white, one red. The larger plane is still on glidepath, but since the cockpit is so much higher, it shows high. The main gear of the 747 and C172 are still at the same place somewhat.

A better analogy would be 3-bar VASI.

 

[mules83]

A better analogy would be 3-bar VASI.

but a PAPI could work for a C172 too. A 3 bar doesnt show a on glide path for small a/c. It just shows on upper or on lower glidepath, no 'on glidepath'

'cessna man' needs to know....but im good enough that i dont need one

 

[Fly Navy]

but a PAPI could work for a C172 too. A 3 bar doesnt show a on glide path for small a/c. It just shows on upper or on lower glidepath, no 'on glidepath'

You're missing the point.

3 bar VASI, you fly 2 red over 1 white for a normal aircraft. For a large aircraft, you fly 1 red over two white. (or maybe it's the other way around, been forever since I flew a 3 bar). The point is, you still get red over white for on-glidepath, just like center-ball on the FLOLS.

 

[mules83]

3 bar VASI, you fly 2 red over 1 white for a normal aircraft. For a large aircraft, you fly 1 red over two white. (or maybe it's the other way around, been forever since I flew a 3 bar). The point is, you still get red over white for on-glidepath, just like center-ball on the FLOLS.

true, red over white you are usually good to go. i always remember that red on top like a traffic light

 

[Fly Navy]

true, red over white you are usually good to go. i always remember that red on top like a traffic light

"red over white, you're alright. White over red, you're dead". ALways how I remembered it.

 

[mules83]

If anybody is completely confused with PAPI/VASI, red/white, blah blah, here is a link showing them.

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap2/aim0201.html#2-1-2

 

[kmac]

A4s,
I fully understand the concept of the roll angle for different aircraft. I just wonder if there's a better way to do it (change the visual point across the ramp from the cockpit while maintaining a ~3 degree slope) without rotating the lens. I believe that for the IFLOLS, each cell moves (rotates) rather than the entire lens (FLOLS). I'm trying to figure out if one can "fly" a centered ball from the 90 on in and still be on glidepath.

 

[codtanker]

Kmac, you're spending too much time looking out at the 90! Didn't the Bunkster teach you guys just fly your damn numbers and look out every once in awhile. Yep, it's a VFR pattern but trust me those numbers are there for a reason. Over thinking this pattern and the lense before you get to/near the groove just helps you overfly, especially for a COD guy. We are the bastard children of the airwing or haven't you got that yet?

I had friends do the first cruise on the GW with the lense, they loved it but if my memory serves correctly they in turn changed out the 3 wire far more often then any other cruise to date. Is that bad, hell no, but it definitely showed how precise the new lense was.

Besides, it lets the old guys see the ball from a longer distance these days. I remember a individual, name withheld of course that asked the new guys in the right seat to tell him where he was on the ball until about a 1/2 mile which is where he could finally start seeing the ball. Dangerous, maybe but he wore the right rank and had proven his abilities in the aircraft over the many years.

Centerline, yep it's there painted and highly stressed to the C2/E2 brothers since our wingspan is 80ft and most LAs are right around 90ft in width. Most of your corrections will be to the right as the boat goes through the water if it's having to make wind for you.

 

[kmac]

The Bunkster taught me systems. Strange... the man admits he should NEVER being the one teaching systems. And damn, why does everyone assume I don't know what the hell I'm talking about or have never been to the boat?? I'm just being a dork and thinking of the "systems" of the IFLOLS. But thanks for the love anyway, Codtanker. Cheers.

 

[bunk22]

A4s,
I fully understand the concept of the roll angle for different aircraft. I just wonder if there's a better way to do it (change the visual point across the ramp from the cockpit while maintaining a ~3 degree slope) without rotating the lens. I believe that for the IFLOLS, each cell moves (rotates) rather than the entire lens (FLOLS). I'm trying to figure out if one can "fly" a centered ball from the 90 on in and still be on glidepath.

Dude, first you actually have to fly a centered ball. I can appreciate taking a look at all the cells but isn't the ball supposed to be slightly cresting?