767 Lands on Taxi-way in Atlanta

[A4sForever]

[FONT=&quot]Question for some of you guys that have in the thousands of hour's logged catagory.

With so many incidents happening lately do you think that these events are related to the way we train flight crews now days vs the old ways?

Thoughts?[/FONT]

Your font hurts my head. And my eyes ... MY EYES !!!!

I know the answer to your question(s) ...

 

[MrsPickle]

It's a relatively common practice. Here at NASWI, they use the Bravo taxiway almost exclusively to launch & recover the flying club aircraft. In Incirlik, Turkey, they use the parallel taxiway as an emergency runway - even has provisions to set up arresting gear on it. One day during an ONW recovery, an F-16 slid off the main RWY, so everyone else recovered using the taxiway, including the big wing tankers. Obviously things have to be set up for that, but it's not that uncommon.

Brett

DAMMIT...Gotta look and see who is logged on before I post!!!
Let me tell you, the first time that happened when I was doing high-powers on the approach end of 07 it freaked me right the fuck out. (nobody told ME they take off frm there) I saw the little guy taxi by and Tower asked me to suspend turns until he took off (shoula been a clue there) so I was shooting the shit with the FE, look out my window to the left and this fucking Cessna is eyeball level with me about 20 feet off he deck...Granted he was a little right of centerline, but it was normal ops for these guys...turn crew had a good laugh at the new guy "What the fuck is he doing?! Ground, is that guy taking off on Bravo??...."Uhh, yes...yes he is..."

Lesson learned...

Pickle (in another extremely low SA situation)

 

[HAL Pilot]

Question for some of you guys that have in the thousands of hour's logged catagory.......Thoughts?

No. This stuff has always happened. It's just with today's "instant" news and sensationalism, it's just more visible.

At the airline / professional level of pilot experience, I believe training in a level C or D sim is more effective and efficient than in the airplane. I've done it both ways (Twin Otter, Piaggio & Citation in plane. 717, 727, 737 & 767 in sim) and my sim training was far better. You already know how to fly, it's just learning that particular aircraft's systems, profiles and characteristics.

717, 727, 737 & 767 - the first time I actually flew the aircraft (vice sim) were revenue flights with passengers. They didn't have a clue. It's just the way it is and it is no big deal. The sims are that good. Besides, other than during turbulence during cruise (seat belt sign), I don't think about the pax anyway. I have a great door keeping me separated from the cattle. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Palm Springs international (KPSP) is also laden with "taxiway" painted on the parallel taxiways....

... they do say that warnings and obvious signs like that are laid down for a REASON.

Hmmm didn't really notice that yesterday/today but maybe I was too busy eyeballing the giant mountains i was approaching next to...

 

[rondebmar]

This is a good place for the following story...complacency kills!!

Warm, sunny, quiet CAVU Sunday, early afternoon, ~35 years ago...going into MSP in a 727, I'm FE...FE's then not required to follow approach as they were years later...arrival from the south, check lists completed, cleared to land by tower on 12R...:sleep_125

About to turn onto final...through the mental fog I read the tower "Cessna xxx, cleared to land 30L"...something not right here registers immediately...h-m-m...thought about that for an instant...oh-oh!

So...no-one up front said a word...I grabbed Capt. Jimmy's shoulder...he's a good friend, straight shooter, etc...voiced my fear, asked him to check w/tower re "landing clearance"...Jimmy didn't need CRM (which came later)...he instantly called tower to confirm our clearance...tower immediately responded "United xxx, go around, go around!!"

Initiated the go around at ~300'...cleared for a right downwind, again cleared to land 12R...tower pauses, asks us if we require a phone number...after short pause, Jim responds "Nope...I think we all learned a little something today"! He was a cool dude!

(BTW...I'd've made the same response...)

(Special font above for A4s)

 

[BACONATOR]

So ATC giving you a phone number to call isn't good? Damn....

 

[pourts]

That's nice of Capt. Jimmy, but would ATC have been so understanding if it had been the pilot's screw up? Or would he have violated his ass?

 

[LowWingLoad]

At the airline / professional level of pilot experience, I believe training in a level C or D sim is more effective and efficient than in the airplane.

You already know how to fly, it's just learning that particular aircraft's systems, profiles and characteristics.

See I guess this is what makes me scratch my head, I see these "kids" at work that are wearing three and sometimes even four strips and still are trying to figure out how to shave, we were changing a main gear tire today and had a very junior FO come over to watch and my friend asked him how old he was and he proudly declared 22 and he is right seating on an MD-88. It just makes me wonder how much actual flight experience do these young guys have, while I can understand the cost perspective of why sims are better for training and absolutely better from a standpoint of being able to run a scenario over and over until it is understood and learned properly. The age factor vs the way it seems to me it used to be is scary.

I remember it used to be you started out flying something like a small Cessna twin or Piper hauling bank receipts or mail then you moved to B99's or better then finally you started getting into some major equipment and you had scored the big time. Now it seems like all that airmanship and learning via actually being in the crap once in awhile in a plane that had 15 former logos and bailing wire and smelled like a tree farm is lost on the new ways of training.

Just my .02, thank you for the insight and response to my question.

 

[A4sForever]

I think this might be the one thing that I've ever disagreed w/ HAL about:

I'll take an airplane trainer ANYDAY, ANYWAY over a sim ... no hesitations, no reservations ...

Except for the part when you fuck up and crash.

Then I'll take the sim ANYDAY, ANYWAY over an airplane ... no hesitations, no reservations ....

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

DAMMIT...Gotta look and see who is logged on before I post!!!
Let me tell you, the first time that happened when I was doing high-powers on the approach end of 07 it freaked me right the fuck out. (nobody told ME they take off frm there) I saw the little guy taxi by and Tower asked me to suspend turns until he took off (shoula been a clue there) so I was shooting the shit with the FE, look out my window to the left and this fucking Cessna is eyeball level with me about 20 feet off he deck...Granted he was a little right of centerline, but it was normal ops for these guys...turn crew had a good laugh at the new guy "What the fuck is he doing?! Ground, is that guy taking off on Bravo??...."Uhh, yes...yes he is..."

Lesson learned...

Pickle (in another extremely low SA situation)

You don't need to post what happens at your wive's club meetings here...