A Lost Generation?

[DanMa1156]

I think it should be noted that the appearance at Columbia by the Iranian President was certainly anti-Amenijdad or whatever the hell is name is. The entire time, from what I've read, the President of Columbia was bashing him and his policies... it wasn't exactly a "Good afternoon sir, welcome to Columbia University," as presented by the author, but I do see the irony he does talking about how they don't allow ROTC or recruiters on.

 

[blur]

Maybe it's my browser...but that dude needs to get a new spacebar...

 

[HueyCobra8151]

1) The movie sucks, go read the book - it is pretty damned good.

2) A better corollary to Starship Troopers wouldn't be forcing people to serve in the military to gain rights (specifically franchise), it would be forcing people to serve in some sort of civil servant capacity. If you recall in Heinlein's book (read: vision) you had an inalienable right to join - but all the people unsuited for "military service" were put to work doing nonsense jobs for four years.

I think this would correlate more properly to any civil servant job (the military being just one of these).

Probably a waste of taxpayers money all told.

Break, Break,

I blame it on schools preaching "self esteem" from Kindergarten on up. Feeling good about yourself is all well and good - but receiving praise for nothing just teaches you that you are a special little snowflake that can be on your own program no matter what.

I see at least one (usually more) self-important narcissistic fuckwit that I want to punch just for GP just about every day on campus.

 

[invertedflyer]

I think the degredation of today's youth is centered around 4 main points. Capitalism (materialism), a culture of individualism (pop culture), a liberal news media, and culture with respect to geographic location.

IMO my generation has lost touch with a true sense of patriotism, instead focusing on popular culture. They are much more worried about wearing the most fad clothing, buying that new iphone, and partying it up with their friends than Iraq or our military. Their parents, locked in busy and stressful environments of their own, only police them to some extent. They are very much concentrated on materialism, wealth, and image. These kids are "on their own program" so to speak. That being said, you're going to see a much different attitude here in SoCal compared to say, Charleston South Carolina. In SC, you're probably more liable to find people much more patriotic and supportive. So, in short, it depends on which part of the country you're in. If you're in the south or midwest vs. northeast or pacific coast.

The news media has done a wonderful job of emphasizing every negative aspect of this war. I'm not going to stand up and say that everything has gone perfectly, but I do understand what is happening NOW. If the average citizen doesn't go beyond their daily news casts to become informed, they will become the opposite of that... misinformed. This permeates into today's youth as well.

My overall opinion is that this new culture is of "not caring" ... focusing on partying, making money, and looking good while doing it. Honestly, I wanted to freakin' choke many of the students I shared classrooms with. My overall feeling in my last year of college was that nobody cared. Nobody talked about it, and if they did it put a heavy negative undertone on today's military.

/rant

 

[DanMa1156]

I think the degredation of today's youth is centered around 4 main points. Capitalism (materialism), a culture of individualism, a liberal news media, and culture with respect to geographic location.

/rant

"Down with Capitalism, eh comrades, eh!"

I'm not so sure I agree with all you say, but I'll get to it another day... Spanish and Physics are calling my name...

 

[xj220]

Here's my question. Everyone talks about how bad things are and how we're all doomed, but doesn't every generation have its challenges? I remember doing a research project on Naval rearmament between the world wars and during the project I had to scan several periodicals including newspapers. Believe me, we aren't alone in having problems. You'd be amazed what articles were in those newspapers. It seems like the old salts always worry about the new group of kids coming up but we manged to turn out just fine. I know I'm young and haven't "experienced" life as much as a lot of people, but I'm old enough to begin to see the big picture of things. I'm not worried at all. If the shit hits the fan, you can bet people will be there to fight for our country regardless of their views.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

They are much more worried about wearing the most fad clothing, buying that new iphone, and partying it up with their friends than Iraq or our military. Their parents, locked in busy and stressful environments of their own, only police them to some extent.

The war doesn't affect them. In World War II (for example), people were probably much more cognizant of the war because it affected them directly through rationing.

If you name a war in history fought far from home that had little to no effect on consumer goods at home, I bet that the majority of people had no clue about it other than the fact that it existed.

Example: During Gulf I when I was a kid, I didn't give a damn about the "war" really except for the nightly clips on TV. I didn't go to school and talk about it, or know the in's and out's of what exactly was going on. If the government had started rationing rubber and gasoline and chocolate and whatever else because we had to send it to the war effort, I probably would have been much more knowledgeable because it would have had a direct impact on my life.

Edit:

I think the degredation of today's youth is centered around 4 main points. Capitalism (materialism), a culture of individualism, a liberal news media, and culture with respect to geographic location.

3 of those 4 are defining American qualities, hell, I suppose you could say all of them are if you used "liberal" meaning progressive, vice liberal meaning "left-leaning politics".

I would argue that capitalism (and yes, materialism) are what drives our economy and the entire "American Way of Life" that much of the rest of the world wants so badly. The founding fathers were pretty individualistic and our geographic location has had a profound effect on America as a whole. We have had a "liberal news media" (ie an uncensored or government sponsored news media) since before the revolution.

 

[invertedflyer]

"Down with Capitalism, eh comrades, eh!"

I'm not so sure I agree with all you say, but I'll get to it another day... Spanish and Physics are calling my name...

I was already taking up half a page, but i suppose I could have prefaced my comments by explaining that anything in excess can turn negative. If your focus is only on materialism (specifically), IMO you can lose sight of the aforementioned "bigger picture". I am very much a capitalist... and would buy that iphone if I could afford it!

If you name a war in history fought far from home that had little to no effect on consumer goods at home, I bet that the majority of people had no clue about it other than the fact that it existed.

I agree with what you're saying. However, I'd say that American culture has changed since WWII. We were much more united back then IMO, much more patriotic. Americans hadn't experienced Korea, Vietnam, or other conflicts that bred skepticism and doubt amongst the public.

I'm not worried at all. If the shit hits the fan, you can bet people will be there to fight for our country regardless of their views.

I'm not worried either. While I see many fall into cycles of skepticism, and cynicism, I know many that are ready and willing to put on the uniform.

 

[xj220]

The war doesn't affect them. In World War II (for example), people were probably much more cognizant of the war because it affected them directly through rationing.

If you name a war in history fought far from home that had little to no effect on consumer goods at home, I bet that the majority of people had no clue about it other than the fact that it existed.

Example: During Gulf I when I was a kid, I didn't give a damn about the "war" really except for the nightly clips on TV. I didn't go to school and talk about it, or know the in's and out's of what exactly was going on. If the government had started rationing rubber and gasoline and chocolate and whatever else because we had to send it to the war effort, I probably would have been much more knowledgeable because it would have had a direct impact on my life.

I agree completely. I can't blame the majority of my age group for showing disinterest in the war because it doesn't affect them or they have no need to be involved. Sure we may be fighting the good fight and getting rid of terrorists, but it still comes down to words and news clips.

 

[invertedflyer]

but it still comes down to words and news clips.

Unfortunately.

 

[pennst8]

but it still comes down to words and news clips.

Only if Jon Stewart shows 'em.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

I agree with what you're saying. However, I'd say that American culture has changed since WWII. We were much more united back then IMO, much more patriotic. America hadn't experienced Korea, Vietnam, or other conflicts that bred skepticism and doubt amongst the public.

Again, you are not being historically accurate.

A HUGE portion of the population was opposed to WWII, it took the attack at Pearl Harbor to convince people that we needed to go to a war that had already been going on for quite awhile.

There was a higher percentage of volunteers in Vietnam than in World War II and Korea. (There were more people drafted for Korea and WWII than Vietnam was well)

Over 1/3 of the country was against the Revolutionary War.

There was a large portion of the population against the Civil War as well,

Ad nauseum.

 

[xj220]

Think about it though, you're in college and the main things on your mind right now are probably beer, girls, grades (maybe) and if you're a senior, finding a job. Something that only appears in the papers or on tv isn't going to sway you. Something like the RIAA (damn Nazis) suing people for downloading music illegally is going to be more important since that could affect you directly.

 

[BigIron]

I think the degredation of today's youth is centered around 4 main points. Capitalism (materialism), a culture of individualism (pop culture), a liberal news media, and culture with respect to geographic location.

IMO my generation has lost touch with a true sense of patriotism, instead focusing on popular culture. They are much more worried about wearing the most fad clothing, buying that new iphone, and partying it up with their friends than Iraq or our military. Their parents, locked in busy and stressful environments of their own, only police them to some extent. They are very much concentrated on materialism, wealth, and image. These kids are "on their own program" so to speak. That being said, you're going to see a much different attitude here in SoCal compared to say, Charleston South Carolina. In SC, you're probably more liable to find people much more patriotic and supportive. So, in short, it depends on which part of the country you're in. If you're in the south or midwest vs. northeast or pacific coast.

The news media has done a wonderful job of emphasizing every negative aspect of this war. I'm not going to stand up and say that everything has gone perfectly, but I do understand what is happening NOW. If the average citizen doesn't go beyond their daily news casts to become informed, they will become the opposite of that... misinformed. This permeates into today's youth as well.

My overall opinion is that this new culture is of "not caring" ... focusing on partying, making money, and looking good while doing it. Honestly, I wanted to freakin' choke many of the students I shared classrooms with. My overall feeling in my last year of college was that nobody cared. Nobody talked about it, and if they did it put a heavy negative undertone on today's military.

/rant

Yes. And when they are partying it up at home making/spending big money, you will be in a foreign dump executing foreign policy. Some will not respect you openly, but deep down they will be glad you are doing and not them. I think a lot of them are scared. The code pink folks will continue to protest. The conspiracy theorists will continue to make films. You will be ashore, or on a ship away from your family sucking it up. It's a pretty cool dichotomy.

On the other hand, not all people join the military for patriotic reasons. I've seen a lot of folks join just to escape home (and whatever circumstances). I think the solution is to press on. If you have kids, don't raise them to be one of these selfish ingrates.

 

[Rasczak]

Been reading Starship Troopers lately?

Your screen name wouldn't have anything to do with that book, would it?

albeit a bit of that was reminiscent of the book, it had nothing to do with my opinion. I've always felt strongly about people being made to join the military. Despite the fact they may not want to be there, the experience will at least teach them something to make them a somewhat better member of society. Besides, the training is a good time to determine where those guys should be placed.