A Lost Generation?

[Rasczak]

1) forcing people to serve in some sort of civil servant capacity. If you recall in Heinlein's book (read: vision) you had an inalienable right to join - but all the people unsuited for "military service" were put to work doing nonsense jobs for four years.

I think this would correlate more properly to any civil servant job (the military being just one of these).

Something along those lines wouldn't be all that bad. But I was talking about just males joining. I'd throw in a reference to Korea and other similar places that do this, but truth be told, I haven't research the effects it's had on the Korean population. I just knew a few Korean people that have been through it.

From what they tell me, the way it works you get stuck where you can be used the most.

What do I know, I's ign'ant.

 

[invertedflyer]

Again, you are not being historically accurate.

A HUGE portion of the population was opposed to WWII, it took the attack at Pearl Harbor to convince people that we needed to go to a war that had already been going on for quite awhile.

There was a higher percentage of volunteers in Vietnam than in World War II and Korea. (There were more people drafted for Korea and WWII than Vietnam was well)

Over 1/3 of the country was against the Revolutionary War.

There was a large portion of the population against the Civil War as well,

Ad nauseum.

Regardless, you have to look at things relatively. World War I would have been a much more controversial war to support your argument.

Overall, I'd say (with poles showing 70% of the population disapproving of the war) that many more are opposed to it than say, the american revolution for example. The civil war is a poor choice overall to support your point, because it was a war with ourselves, ofcourse it wasn't going to be popular. There have been many controversial wars, but I'm speaking more towards how the military is being viewed NOW, NOT at the beginning of the conflict. Good luck finding many people in any of the wars you mentioned badmouthing the troops or not caring about the situation. Many of the wars you mentioned had broad support once the war started. Not the case these days. I do, however, agree to some extent that this is partially due to the war not directly impacting modern youths' lives.

Another issue to consider is social responsibility. IMO earlier American youth were raised with a harder work ethic, and in an environment that emphasized the importance of a responsibility to the collective. Again this varies due to geographic location and culture.

Think about it though, you're in college and the main things on your mind right now are probably beer, girls, grades (maybe) and if you're a senior, finding a job.

I'm done with college... more worried about my commissioning package at the moment Regardless, I think that students should be more in tuned with world events. just my opinion

 

[UCbearcat]

Regardless, I think that students should be more in tuned with world events. just my opinion

I agree, there are a lot of students at my university that just don't stay on top of current events or care. Half of that is because we're at college though. I barely get to watch the news any more. The best I can do is read some of the streaming news on my computer. I'm so concentrated on other things as mentioned before it's hard to find the time. Not all of which are beers and girls by the way.

As for public universities being a gauge of public support for wars, it doesn't seem true on my campus. A lot of the students may be against the war, but barely any do anything publicly about it. The most that I've seen are chalk writings scribbled on the wall that say "End the War Now" and peace signs. As for pro-military, just recently they completely filled the common area with flags to honor "fallen heroes". The only reason I put this in quotes is because it appeared on the front of the university newspaper. These flags oppose the article's quote, "students identify — or fail to identify — as their 'heroes' ".

In another issue altogether, I received a pamphlet today from a group on campus and it said basically that we should support the Israeli troops and oppose the Palestinians. This is fine, especially since we are allied with Israel, but I would hope that we would want to focus on our troops before we focused on anyone else's.

 

[invertedflyer]

^^ Somehow I managed to stay on top of current events throughout college. This was due in part to some of the classes that I took I suppose (history major). Strangely enough AW helps you stay current to some extent. It seems that many of the top news stories are discussed here.

I agree with what you're saying, but remember what I said in my earlier post. This all depends on geographic region. In your area, which I would categorize as the midwest, yes... you are going to see a much more patriotic and supportive populace. hands down.

 

[UCbearcat]

Geographic region and culture have a lot to do with it, I agree. I traveled to Tennessee last year and was amazed how much more support they seem to have for the military than Ohio. It seemed like everyone had an American flag and a POW flag. More liberal areas, your right, will definitely have a different view on things.

 

[xj220]

Honestly, I don't see mandatory military service as a solution to anything. You've all seen those people in your units that aren't interested in being there and could care less about what they're doing. They half-ass things and all around shitty. By forcing people to serve in the military, you'll be opening the flood gates to this kind of attitude. A lot of people don't have the same duty ethic that we do. The only result we'd get would be a larger military but a weaker one due to apathy and carelessness.

 

[Huggy Bear]

Here's my question. Everyone talks about how bad things are and how we're all doomed, but doesn't every generation have its challenges? I remember doing a research project on Naval rearmament between the world wars and during the project I had to scan several periodicals including newspapers. Believe me, we aren't alone in having problems. You'd be amazed what articles were in those newspapers. It seems like the old salts always worry about the new group of kids coming up but we manged to turn out just fine. I know I'm young and haven't "experienced" life as much as a lot of people, but I'm old enough to begin to see the big picture of things. I'm not worried at all. If the shit hits the fan, you can bet people will be there to fight for our country regardless of their views.

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.”

From Hesiod, 700BC

 

[eddie]

I just want the military (certain services more than others) to have more $$$$$$$.

 

[eddie]

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.”

From Hesiod, 700BC

Seriously. Things get worse before they get better, and something about things changing but not really???

 

[FlybyWired06]

OK, so, my original post has certainly seemed to spark some debate, which is good. Alot of good points are being made. I think we can all agree though that the freedoms that allow arguments like this to occur are certainly worth protecting. Let's just hope things don't get too much worse before they get better. The war that is being fought needs to be fought, whether it be now or later, terrorism cannot be tolerated...

 

[Flash]

Guys, get off the high horse you are riding on.......:icon_roll

Today's youth are no better or worse than the youth from one, two or 10 generations ago. To lament that yoru contemporaries are lazy, indifferent or just apathetic about what is going on in the world may be true in your tiny little worldview but you have to think, have you really seen enough to make that kind of judgement?

Many of you here indicate that you are, or were recently, in college. Your classmates didn't care about the war, don't have a sense of patriotism, etc etc......Do you all really think that you college is all encompassing of this country's youth? Being a little arrogant yourselves? Maybe you ought to stop by alma mater, The Citadel, where patriotism is always evident and service is widespread. Though it was only just 40 years ago that the fine institution accepted its first black cadet, since segregation was the norm back then in the South. That generation in that region, along with the ones previous, are not looking so good through the not-so-rose-colored glasses that is history and reality.......

As for requiring service, I think it might be a good idea but impratical. Would you argue that German youths are more patriotic because many of them are required to serve, if not in the Army then in the health care and other public service industries? I would argue not, having met many of them. And it is absurd to suggest that people have to serve to gain rights, what about people who are unable to serve, notably the physically and mentally handicapped?

As for the article itself, I believe written by ADM Zumwalt's son, he has taken a very few isolated incidents and tried to apply them to whole generation. A fraud of a professor supported by (how many?) students and a poor display of sportmanship by a single school. With few hard facts and a lot of bluster, he is very clumsy in proving his point. If this generation was so bad then where are the masses of people spitting on the troops and calling them baby killers? With the exception of a few radicals and idiots there is widespread support for servicemen and women, unlike the generation previous.

Maybe Lt Col Zumwalt ought to step outside of the office's of the Moonie paper he writes for and volunteer with some of the people like my cousin's, none of whom have any interest in the military but are still serving their communities and their country. Service to one's country does not mean require a uniform or getting a civil service check and patriotism does not have to be worn on your sleeve. Open your eyes a little bit and you might see that.

 

[Herc_Dude]

Let's just hope things don't get too much worse before they get better.

I wish I was as optimistic as you ... I think our sink rate is slowing, but its still a SINK rate...

 

[FlybyWired06]

I don't know if Zumwalt was really trying to prove any point. His article was truly just posing the question of "A Lost Generation." His few examples only laid the groundwork for discussion...

I agree Devil Dog, I believe things are still getting worse...

 

[Flash]

I don't know if Zumwalt was really trying to prove any point. His article was truly just posing the question of "A Lost Generation." His few examples only laid the groundwork for discussion...

I agree Devil Dog, I believe things are still getting worse...

Crack open a history book, and not some rah-rah piece like Band of Brothers. While neither of us have the benefit of living through another generations, trials and tribulations there is plenty out there that shows you history was not all hunky dorey.

A good example, do you have any idea how Senator Truman came to national prominence during WWII? Goes to show you that the 'greatest generation' had its flaws too. Same with the Founding Fathers, read up on them.

For someone who is just over a year out of college, especially one as restrictive as your alma mater, how the heck can you judge your generation against others? Reaching a bit?

 

[AJB37]

This debate reminds me of the fight club quote:
[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]"We're the middle children of history.... no purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives.[/FONT]"

Yes I know its the quote from the movie and not from the book but this one has a better ring to it... which is why its in the movie.