A Women as a Blue Angel

[flygirlA47474]

Just to ask.... I was able to go see the Blue Angels perform this weekend at MCAS. I have been reasearching them and I noticed that there are olny male aviators, there has never been a female. I'm not talking about it being sexiest at all, I am just wondering if women even apply for the pilot slots on #'s 1 through 7 F/A 18's?

 

[Lawman]

Well the T-birds just signed the first ever female pilot to next year (06) team. This has however been met with a lot of critisism as to whether this was politically motivated or not. Theres been a lot of hollering by a lot of activist groups out there pushing their own agenda, one of the biggest being the femanist lobby. Seeing the premier Jet Display teams made up entirely of men has been a big deal for a while, along with no women on Subs or the fact that there are no women in any of the Special Forces groups throughout the military. Some of those rescrictions have real, and serious reasons for existing. Now if she can fly the plane as well as any of the male applicants and she fits what the team wants better, then I say sure let the lady fly. But if this was an effort to see who could get a Woman on the team first reguardless of whether or not she was the best candidate then shame on whoever motivated that.

Now personally, I dont care how bad somebody wants "Gender Equality" or "Racial Equality" for that matter. Gender and Racial Equality mean you pick the best candidates for the job reguardless of gender or race, not because of thier gender or race. Some people cant seem to get that though. Its the military, not a Childrens show on PBS.

 

[Lawman]

They deserve their slots, no one gave it to them. I think they'd take issue with someone saying they only got their slot due to their gender.

I didnt mean to say she got her slot just because they wanted a girl this year. And no, Im not second guessing the T-birds for picking a woman this year from everything Ive read she sounds like she will excell. I think the second guessing exists for a differnt reason. I think there is still a lot of well deserved fear of creating another situation like the one that got Kara Hultgreen killed. Especially with something as High Visability to the public as the Flight Display Teams.

 

[Lawman]

Ok, I re-edited that last post because after reading it, wasnt what I was going for.

Did I ever say she or any of the other women flying at the moment cant or shouldnt be doing it? No. Did I say that a woman cant do the job of a man or that a race cant do the job of another? No. Im saying that from a recruitment standpoint it would make sence to have a well represented group as the "showpeice" of your service. From the nature of what your asking those pilots to do though, put the best people in there that can do the job. If that happens to be 3 women and 4 men then fine. But at the same time, I can really see some group somewhere sitting down a few years from now looking at the Blues if they havent had a female pilot by then going, well the T-birds have had a woman, the Navy must be Sexist. Whether or not they just havent had a woman apply that was the best candidate for the job in comparison to the rest of the applicant pool.

And you cant tell me that in situations the military as well as many other government entities have been forced to do something to appease somebody outside that entity with an agenda to push. Thats the situation Im talking about. By all means though if there is a female applicant in the pool that is the best qualified for the job, take her.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Just to ask.... I was able to go see the Blue Angels perform this weekend at MCAS. I have been reasearching them and I noticed that there are olny male aviators, there has never been a female. I'm not talking about it being sexiest at all, I am just wondering if women even apply for the pilot slots on #'s 1 through 7 F/A 18's?

You don't think she's a total public relations home-run for the AF?

Trust me , the Navy won't be far behind. Dollars to donuts 2007 Blue Angels has a female team member.

Joining the Thunderbirds in the no. 3 right wing position will be Capt. Nicole Malachowski, currently assigned to the 494th Fighter Squadron, RAF Lakenheath, United Kingdom. Captain Malachowski will turn a new page in history as the first female demonstration pilot on a U.S. military high performance jet team.

 

[nittany03]

Something else to consider is that you're never going to get total equality of numbers because more women are going to be attracted to certain jobs and more men are attracted to others. Notice, for instance most elementary school teachers are women. Most combat pilots are men. Both fields are open to both genders, but very few women WANT to fly military aircraft. You can't complain of sexism if you've got a free choice and then only 2 percent (or whatever the proportion is) chooses option B.

I'm curious if any (or if so how many) female pilots have ever rushed the Blues. Not trying to advance any argument with that data, just curious.

 

[beau]

I'm curious if any (or if so how many) female pilots have ever rushed the Blues. Not trying to advance any argument with that data, just curious.

That is the question!!! Like i've said before...outside pressure on female pilots to tryout is the Wrong way to do it. My Cousin in law (female), who flys vipers, was in so many words told to put in an application for the T-birds because they were looking for a female for the team. Major hinting from superiors...not good!!! That sort of agenda mindset is exactly what let to the Navy's problems with female aviators in the mid 90's.....trying to force the mold against the system....the "this person will get their wings no matter what" attitude.

 

[nittany03]

I would have to say that that attitude is not present in today's Navy, however. It's a shame that its present in the AF, but they've got other problems (ascotts anyone?). Nittany and beau, would you agree that flight training today in the Navy is more of a 'perform or get out' attitude for everyone, regardless of gender? I just have a hard time swallowing when Joe Civilian thinks that there is 'well-deserved concern' about females that are in training or the fleet today. Maybe its a leftover misconception from a decade ago, but I have never seen it lately.

I would vouch for that. I've seen females get winged and males attrite. I just think more men than women want to do this job, and thus there are very few women present. No double standards that I've seen though. Good to hear from someone closer to the fleet that those attitudes aren't swirling around your rumor mill either, though.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I didnt mean to say she got her slot just because they wanted a girl this year. And no, Im not second guessing the T-birds for picking a woman this year from everything Ive read she sounds like she will excell. I think the second guessing exists for a differnt reason. I think there is still a lot of well deserved fear of creating another situation like the one that got Kara Hultgreen killed. Especially with something as High Visability to the public as the Flight Display Teams.

Where is all this second guessing? I haven't read any in the media and I have a lot of Navy and Air Farce pilot friends. I do not see any of them second guessing this, including at least 2 who know her and have first-hand knowledge of her flying.

Totally different world/attitude than when Hultgreen was killed. Women have been in tactical jets for a lot longer now. They earned there spots and if they have the experience, there is no reason to deny a woman the chance to fly for the Blues.

I looked at you profile. Have you even been in military aviation or even the military? A lot of poeple how have not been there seemed to be the first to jump on the "she has to have had special treatment because she's a woman" bandwagon.

 

[highlyrandom]

Hey, as long as you don't loudly proclaim "This is going to be the first all-female formation flight by students this fiscal year!"

It's a misquote, but not by much...eyeball rolls by men and women alike

 

[codtanker]

The Blues did select a female I believe for the Herc a couple of years ago. However, rumor has it she declined it in the end for family reasons.

 

[Lawman]

Where is all this second guessing? I haven't read any in the media and I have a lot of Navy and Air Farce pilot friends. I do not see any of them second guessing this, including at least 2 who know her and have first-hand knowledge of her flying.

Totally different world/attitude than when Hultgreen was killed. Women have been in tactical jets for a lot longer now. They earned there spots and if they have the experience, there is no reason to deny a woman the chance to fly for the Blues.

I looked at you profile. Have you even been in military aviation or even the military? A lot of poeple how have not been there seemed to be the first to jump on the "she has to have had special treatment because she's a woman" bandwagon.

The second guessing attitude existed when the story broke with the Thunderbirds signing a woman to the team. It didnt just make little news, it made national news. Why, because she is a woman. I remember the feminist group here at Kent calling it a victory against sexism, great.... wait there was a battle going on in the military? Thats my problem, is that like you said people outside the life want to dictate a policy reguardless of whatever reasons something doesnt or hasnt happened yet. And if they cant visibly see the results of that policy well obviously it must not be being implemented. No Im not active service, Im sitting around waiting on my degree. But Ive worked enough time in a government position to understand the way a politicians "Best thing for my re-election" can override "best thing for our agency/department/ect." Im glad the T-birds have finally done this, so that we can get on with it. This did get to be a rallying cry about equality for a lot of groups out there just like Sally Ride was a big deal in the 80's. Im saying it shouldnt have had to be, but for some reason somebody somewhere has decided to keep score so to speak. This is going to leave the Navy to play catchup in the eyes of the same groups calling a woman T-bird a victory who want to see gender equality in the Navys flight display team or it must not exist. Thats the problem, as ChuckMK23 he'd put money on a female team member for 07, I just hope that like you said that force the mold attitude that existed a decade ago doesnt come back.

 

[Lawman]

Hey, as long as you don't loudly proclaim "This is going to be the first all-female formation flight by students this fiscal year!"

It's a misquote, but not by much...eyeball rolls by men and women alike

Like I said, when it comes to race or sex, somebody somewhere decided we have to keep score.

 

[airwinger]

(hopefully I can convey this properly)
The primary mission of the demo teams as I understand it is as a recruiting tool. Most of us here probably don't need them, but if I'm a college student looking for a job, all I may know about the military is whatever truths and/or misconceptions my friends and family have.

The demo teams are meant to show that ordinary people can do extraordinary things with determination and training. The hard part is convincing that college student that ordinary folks do go into this business. If all I saw at airshows were creatures with 4 arms and 6 eyes, I would believe that with a mere 2 arms and eyes, that is well beyond my skill set. Simplistic view but hopefully illustrative.

 

[flygirlA47474]

(hopefully I can convey this properly)
The primary mission of the demo teams as I understand it is as a recruiting tool. Most of us here probably don't need them, but if I'm a college student looking for a job, all I may know about the military is whatever truths and/or misconceptions my friends and family have.

The demo teams are meant to show that ordinary people can do extraordinary things with determination and training. The hard part is convincing that college student that ordinary folks do go into this business. If all I saw at airshows were creatures with 4 arms and 6 eyes, I would believe that with a mere 2 arms and eyes, that is well beyond my skill set. Simplistic view but hopefully illustrative.

What are you trying to convey???