I am no anthropologist and I don't have the time to research it, but I sure as hell can't think of a healthy society that did not have some sort of religious foundation. Help me out here.
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ACLU vs. USNA
- Thread starter MiG15
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No, a subjective philosophy is not rational. Thanks for building another straw man argument in response to a post I made requesting that we avoid those. Was irony your intent?
Reason is not subjective. The phrase "personal logic" makes no sense. A mental process is either logical (rational), or not. Two logical people may reach a different conclusion, because they had different premises, but then one or both of their premises is wrong. A rational philosophy is not a whim-based subjectivism, it's a system built from the logical deduction of ethics, etc. from self-evident axioms.
I'll reiterate: I do NOT support the ACLU, and I believe these mids should have used their chain-of-command.
There are plenty of horribly unhealthy societies with, or based upon religious faith. I'm also not a student of history, but I think that the ancient Greeks were barely religious (in the modern sense of the word). They had a religion, but I'm not sure it provided much in the way of moral guidance. (Please correct me if necessary).
Just because something hasn't existed, doesn't mean it can't.
Well, we got rid of the Bellamy Salute, added "under God" in response to the Knights of Columbus and hell, the entire pledge itself was written by a socialist to implant the idea of blind allegiance to the state - maybe we should scrap it.
Let's just draw this out to logical conclusion for a moment. Polytheistic religions almost NEVER provide a moral compass. They explain why stuff works the way it does and say if you pray to the Rain God your crops will grow better. As societies evolved beyond their basic, "beat a living out of the Earth existance," and had time for art, engineering and philosophy, they tended to start ignoring their own Polytheism. Why? It provided them nothing. Want your crops to grow? Build a friggin aqueduct... Is that morality?
The Big Book Religions. More or less these are big clubs you join, which along with membership dues may demand or suggest a certain style of living in order to "get to heaven." By contrast, all polytheists go to heaven (or hell). This is morality: "Da Rules."
I don't know much about Hinduism except that it is somewhat polytheistic, pantheistic, and monotheistic all at the same time. Very '60s... Karma matters, but only because you can never leave the cycle (reincarnation). You lead a good life NOT because the rules says so but just because that just happens to be how the Univerise is constructed. Is that morality?
Buddhism? Buddhism is about figureing crap out to make YOU happy and centered. Live this way because you will be at peace with yourself... Is that morality? (Enter Confuscius)
From Merriam-Webstser:
But let's look at entry 4 momentarily as well. Virtue? Virtues are culturally subjective and vary quite widely.
That all being said,
Humans require religion; it is NOT going away anytime soon. That's not a judgement, it just is. Way I see it, some of us happen to be wired in such a way that we either don't need it, or can't accept it at all, like an allergy. But for most of us, it is a critical component to our lives and our cultures.
Morality, on the other hand, is probably one of the murkiest terms out there and I'm not so sure it has anything to do with good, noble, or sustainable society.
Reason can be subjective, without a standard non-changing moral code. I am not saying religions don't change either, but hear me out. Without a standard, there is no absolute truth. My truth is not your truth sort of thing. Things do change quickly after that.
This thread is going to go back and forth for days, and no one is going to change the opinion of anyone else, especially not on the internet. Eventually, this thread is getting locked. The real question is who gets the last word.
Don't give me that Kantian nonsense (I think I see what you are saying, but you are saying it all wrong).
The truth / REALITY exists independently of what you or I believe it to be.
That cat over there is a cat. Even if I think it's a goldfish and you think it's a dog, it is still a cat.
Truth exists; value(s) / perception is based on preferences.
In addition to not believing in God I am to assume you belive He never exsisted. So can we agree that He may currently exist, even though you believe he didn't exist in the past, or that he may exsist (make his presence known) in the future?
This thread is going to go back and forth for days, and no one is going to change the opinion of anyone else, especially not on the internet. Eventually, this thread is getting locked. The real question is who gets the last word.
True enough. This isn't generally acceptable ready room talk. The only reason it has stayed open is because the subject was religion in the military and the discourse has been polite and manageable. Oh, and I was hoping it would get back to bashing the ACLU.
The real question is who gets the last word.
God will. The atheists can't hear Him and thus will not respond.
True enough. This isn't generally acceptable ready room talk. The only reason it has stayed open is because the subject was religion in the military and the discourse has been polite and manageable. Oh, and I was hoping it would get back to bashing the ACLU.
In that case, get your anti-ACLU gear online,
American Communist Litigation Unitor join www.stoptheaclu.com
Not for lack of trying.True enough. This isn't generally acceptable ready room talk. The only reason it has stayed open is because the subject was religion in the military and the discourse has been polite and manageable. Oh, and I was hoping it would get back to bashing the ACLU.
^ .. i first saw these "in case of rapture.." quotes when i was a little kid, about the time Jurassic Park came out, and i always thought it was a dinosaur (veloci-raptOr)..and how "in case of rapture, this car will be unmanned" i was like..uh, no shit dude. :watching2:dunce_125
m0tbaillie
Former SWO
How many atheists out there live perfectly normal lives and still manage to be law-biding, conscientious members of society? To assume that society needs religion to function as some sort of moral compass is to assume a bit much, I think.
In fact, looking at the "Big Book Religions" - how many wars have been fought in the name of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism? It's quite ironic when you think about it.
In fact, looking at the "Big Book Religions" - how many wars have been fought in the name of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism? It's quite ironic when you think about it.
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