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Air Force declassifies elite aggressor program

alert5

Registered User
11/13/2006 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- After decades of secrecy, Air Force officials acknowledged Nov. 13 that Communist-built fighters were flown at the Tonopah Test Range northwest of Las Vegas, Nev.

From 1977 through 1988, the program, known as Constant Peg, saw Air Force, Navy and Marine aircrews flying against Soviet-designed MiG fighters as part of a training program where American pilots could better learn how to defeat or evade the Communist bloc's fighters of the day.

Brig. Gen. Hawk Carlisle, the 3rd Wing commander at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, is a former member of the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron and remembers the valuable training the unit provided.

"CONSTANT PEG afforded pilots an opportunity to learn how to fight enemy aircraft in a controlled, safe environment without having to endure the risks of actual air combat," said General Carlisle. "Typically a pilot would start with a basic familiarization flight to observe the enemy airplane and study its characteristics, practicing one-on-one defensive and offensive maneuvers against it, and finally, experience multi-bogey engagements high over the desert scrubland of the Nellis Air Force Base ranges."

As a result of marginal performance of American fighter forces in the skies over North Vietnam, Constant Peg complemented other revolutionary training programs such as Red Flag and Top Gun, and the Air Force and Navy-Marine aggressor squadrons. The program also was intended to eliminate the "buck fever" or nervous excitement many pilots experience on their first few combat missions. Historical experience indicated that pilots who survived their first ten missions were much more likely to survive a complete combat tour, and Constant Peg was intended to teach them the right "moves" to enable them to come out on top of any engagement.

The end of the Constant Peg nearly coincided with the end of the Cold War, by which time some of its graduates already had proven themselves in actual air combat.

Threat aircraft flown by the Red Eagles spanned several decades and technical generations of capability. There was the MiG-17 Fresco, a small, agile single-seat transonic fighter placed in service just after the Korean War and used extensively over Vietnam and the Middle East; the MiG-21 Fishbed, a high supersonic fighter used world-wide in large numbers, and the swing-wing MiG-23 Flogger, likewise in global service, an attempt by the Soviets to match the sophisticated capabilities of the F-4 Phantom.

"Although it came too late to influence Vietnam, Constant Peg training greatly influenced the success of American Airmen in Desert Storm, who shot down 40 Iraqi fighters, many of which were Fishbeds and Floggers," said General Carlisle.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123031752
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Mefesto said:
I'd like to know, of those 40 engagements... how many were actual turning fights and not just Eagles thumping them BVR.


Then walk your @ss to the vault and read the classified AARs
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Mefesto said:
I'd rather just ask someone that knows. You know how much crap that is to dig through?

Then go buy beers in the Club at Nellis, Yuma or Fallon.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Mefesto said:
I'd like to know, of those 40 engagements... how many were actual turning fights and not just Eagles thumping them BVR.

Ahh, the famous sieve of Eagles.

Brett
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why are they declassifying this?

Well, since the Cold War has been over for 17 years and we're talking about 1950's and 60's jets, doesn't seem that compelling a secret anymore. Plus, judging from the petting zoo at Nellis (which I've seen boyscout troupes climbing on) I don't think it has been a secret for a while, since there is all kind of soviet equipment there on display, including the referenced MiG-17 and 21.

Brett
 

snake020

Contributor
It's too bad this didn't come out about a week ago when I was at Gen Carlisle's house - would have been good party talk
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
....As a result of marginal performance of American fighter forces in the skies over North Vietnam, ...
Excuse me. Whose "marginal performance" General? As I recall, the Navy - after the establishment of NFWS - had a kill ratio of 12 - 1. Hardly marginal, no? And what was the Air Force's kill ratio, pray tell?
..."Although it came too late to influence Vietnam, Constant Peg training greatly influenced the success of American Airmen in Desert Storm, who shot down 40 Iraqi fighters, many of which were Fishbeds and Floggers," said General Carlisle.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123031752
General Carlisle apparently never read Wilcox's 1992, Scream of Eagles – along with many other books and articles - which document the establishment of NFWS (Top Gun) and describe the men who had both flown, and flown against captured enemy MiG's (chaps. 8, 14, etc.) somewhere over there above the Air Force's Nevada desert, and many years earlier than "1977" (like maybe, 1969?). Indeed, your United States Navy was hardly, "too late" sir!

The Gen. also probably never read the Aviation 'Leak' article in 1969 that regrettably spilled the beans on some similar Navy black projects, along with the Washington Post's Navy 'special' DACM article of astonishingly great detail, some several years later.

The Navy at the end of the Vietnam War was light-years ahead of the Air Force in understanding and utilizing certain "assets" and putting them to use. It took the Air Force a very long time to catch up, if indeed they ever have… as obviously evidenced by the General's quotes.

Related: http://area51specialprojects.com/migs.html
(Curiously, a then "Colonel Carlisle, Chief of Weapons & Tactics" is listed as a contributor to this unusual website.)
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
You can bet there are a few SU-27's and MIG-29's now...

The Army has utilized Hip, Hind, etc at NTC for years and it was no secret. How often have you seen an Mi-8/17 or Mi-24 at Florala or CEW?
 

H20man

Drill baby drill!
I've seen pics of an SU-27 with US Navy markings on it. I believe it was at Pax.

At TPS the final project is writing a test syllabus for an aircraft that the student has never flown before, and I believe the SU-27, along with other aircraft like the Hind and Apache were on the list of previously used aircraft.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
These days, that kind of stuff comes from the former Warsaw Pact nations like E. Germany, and directly purchased from Russia.

Brett
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
Well, since the Cold War has been over for 17 years

USSR broke up in 1991...must be some of that pilot math...;)

Wouldn't call 89 the end of the Cold War...just my HO.
 
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