Air Medals and the point system

[HeyJoe]

You don't necessarily have to be in country to receive an Air Medal. We have a couple of IPs in the HTs who've earned one for saving the lives of the aircrew after an engine failure in flight.

If you missed it, Dev covered that type of Air Medal a few posts ago vvvv

You can also be awarded Air Medals w/ no "V" nor a Strike/Flight number. There's quite a few helo guys that have them (w/ and w/out Combat "V's") for airmanship. Some examples are for SAR efforts or for saving the aircraft. One of the more recent engine failures in the HTs resulted in a full auto w/ lots of gas and two studs at night on a departure. The last word I got was that CNATRA or the Commodore had the paperwork in pretty fast because everyone walked away w/ only some spread skids.

You can also get a Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) for an aerial feat not associated with combat. In fact, it is standard end of tour award for Thunderbirds.

 

[Flash]

You can also get a Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) for an aerial feat not associated with combat. In fact, it is standard end of tour award for Thunderbirds.

Please tell me you are kidding.......

 

[HeyJoe]

Please tell me you are kidding.......

Nope. Worked with a colonel that had 2 (for serving on the team twice).

 

[Flash]

Nope. Worked with a colonel that had 2 (for serving on the team twice).

Absolutely pathetic, I think I am going to be ill........

 

[rondebmar]

In Viet Nam we were awarded two points for a combat flight during which we took fire, and one point for a combat flight during which we shot, but took no return fire. Obviously, there was a wide divergence in how these points were tallied. Some guys had such good eyes that they were able to see hostile fire on every flight. After a while, I think the squadron tried to simplify things by coming up with a random formula. Twenty points were needed for a Strike/Flight Air Medal.

We were also eligible for Single Action Air Medals. These were always given with a "Combat V". This Combat V could also be awarded with Navy Commendation Medals.

Pretty much as I recall it in mid '60's in my Air Group...one AM per 10 strikes "in country", north or south...green ink...with occasional "single mission" AM's awarded...usually with Combat "V". Was common knowledge no one...repeat no one...below the rank of LCdr would receive a DFC...although some DFC recommendations were downgraded to Navy Commendation Medals...with combat "V".

And some irony lies in the fact that the most demanding piloting I ever had to accomplish was on routine training missions...(usually like saving an airplane in direct violation of NATOPS, or some such...)

 

[eddie]

When questioned about this by our Ops O, they replied "Its is recognized that the younger, more junior officers will have more time in the future to earn higher awards".

Yeah, unless they die...


I can't be the only one who feels valor awards should / would be more common at the PFC level than the Rear Admiral???

 

[Flash]

I can't be the only one who feels valor awards should / would be more common at the PFC level than the Rear Admiral???

The higher valor awards; Silver Star, service crosses and the Medal of Honor, appear to have been awarded that way for Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia. Can't think of many Generals or Admirals getting any of them lately, they usually get the 'meritorious' awards.

 

[HackerF15E]

You can also get a Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) for an aerial feat not associated with combat. In fact, it is standard end of tour award for Thunderbirds.

FWIW, that is not the case so far as I know in recent years. I know four guys who have been Thunder-clones (okay, one of them is a girl) in the last 5-6 years, and they haven't all been awarded DFCs at the end of their tour.

You are absolutely right that this happened in the past though -- I had heard as such, and was surprised to find out that the peeps I knew who had been on the team recently didn't get that awarded.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Hacker, you guys still get Meritorious Commendation Medals as O-3/4s. That is just as ridiculous in navy circles as the DFC for the thunderchickens.

I about fell over when I saw many ACSC folks at the club with 2 or 3 of them as junior O-4s.:icon_rage

On another humorous note.. don't compare the word "command" between USAF dudes and USN... (generally) most of their "squadrons" are our "departments"... they will state that they have "commanded" or are "commanders"... it translates to somewhere slightly below to slightly above DH (maintainers)... and the pilots command the "OPS" squadron, or serve(d) as the OPSO in navy speak.

 

[phrogdriver]

Hacker, you guys still get Meritorious Commendation Medals as O-3/4s. That is just as ridiculous in navy circles as the DFC for the thunderchickens.

I about fell over when I saw many ACSC folks at the club with 2 or 3 of them as junior O-4s.:icon_rage

On another humorous note.. don't compare the word "command" between USAF dudes and USN... (generally) most of their "squadrons" are our "departments"... they will state that they have "commanded" or are "commanders"... it translates to somewhere slightly below to slightly above DH (maintainers)... and the pilots command the "OPS" squadron, or serve(d) as the OPSO in navy speak.

True for some of their support squadrons maybe (e.g. "34559839th Maintenance Squadron), but not for line squadrons. The 8th Special Operations Squadron (to name the last USAF sqdn I visited for an example) is a real squadron with a LtCol as a CO.

 

[MasterBates]

Why does the USAF call every and anything a squadron?

We don't call buildings boats. For example, the Branch Clinic here is not the USS Malingering.

 

[nittany03]

Why does the USAF call every and anything a squadron?

We don't call buildings boats. For example, the Branch Clinic here is not the USS Malingering.

The Royal Navy does things that way, IIRC. An entity like NASC would be HMS Whatever.

 

[PSU3333]

Just got back in January; in our Air Wing (CVW-8), if you went over the Beach you got 1 point; if you dropped bombs, you got another. I heard that it came from Admiral Gortney, but cannot confirm. 20 points = 1 Air Medal.
On a separate note, I heard the Air Force gives Air Medals to the Predator drivers that sit in Nellis.

 

[HackerF15E]

Why does the USAF call every and anything a squadron?

Uh, because that is the USAF's doctrinal basic unit designation? Elements, Flights, Squadrons, Groups, Wings, Numbered Air Forces, Major Commands.

Would it make you feel more comfortable if the USAF started calling things by the abortions that the USN considers names of units, like COMLANTSUBHELTRARONGRU?

Hacker, you guys still get Meritorious Commendation Medals as O-3/4s. That is just as ridiculous in navy circles as the DFC for the thunderchickens.

Not exactly, but close enough. MSM (Meritorious Service Medal for the USAF types) are the 'end of tour' decorations for O-4s and O-5s.

I share your belief that it is completely asinine.

 

[HackerF15E]

On another humorous note.. don't compare the word "command" between USAF dudes and USN... (generally) most of their "squadrons" are our "departments"... they will state that they have "commanded" or are "commanders"... it translates to somewhere slightly below to slightly above DH (maintainers)... and the pilots command the "OPS" squadron, or serve(d) as the OPSO in navy speak.

That is correct for some units outside the operations world. There are O-4 Commanders of Comm Squadrons, Maintenance Squadrons, etc. O-5s, however, are still the basic Command level in the USAF, and Command all other Squadron types to include flying units.

Just because the unit size is smaller and the person at the helm is an O-4 does not make it any less of a "command". The same UCMJ rules and responsibilities apply.

You swabbie types sure seem to like to look for any reason to look down your nose at the USAF -- even if it's completely wrong. But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of your superiority party.