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Air Superiority in the Navy

airgreg

low bypass axial-flow turbofan with AB driver
pilot
Just to pile on to what others have said, the saying around here is that the Hornet is the "little f, BIG A"... f/A-18. No slack...
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
JCS Pub 1-02. In this case,

Air Superiority: That degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another that permits the conduct of operations by the former and its land, sea, and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by the opposing force.

Pretty close to what Brett said
Uh, not really. This is what he said, mentioning only the air component:
That's not really the purpose of air superiority/supremacy, although the ground forces might benefit in an incidental way. It's about being able to conduct an offensive air campaign without interference from the enemy, not the prevention of an enemy to conduct defensive operations against your advancing ground forces.
Mentioning only the air component is insufficient. Ground force benefit is incidental?? Like I said above, thats like saying Germany fought the Battle of Britain so that it could bomb London some more. The real purpose was:
Disagree with your idea of air superiority. The purpose is freedom of action on the ground and the sea.
because at the end of the day only ground forces occupy territory. Excepting Kosovo (like skidkid said) this is often the goal, and the same since Alex the Great, Ceasar, etc, despite new technology.

I didn’t change any deffinition, just indicated what was left out.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
^^ Wow, I guess we've been wrong all these years. I'll call the General in the morning and tell him he had better get to work at changing all those manuals. :rolleyes: Give it a rest, dude. I think the consensus of experienced people here agree, but thanks for telling us how to do our jobs nonetheless.

Brett
 

MrSaturn

Well-Known Member
Contributor
JCS Pub 1-02. In this case,
Air Superiority: That degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another that permits the conduct of operations by the former and its land, sea, and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by the opposing force.

Ok, that is the Air Superiority. That is what the original poster referred to.

Now the question was
With the Tomcat going out the door, does the Navy have any plans to pursue another Air to Air platform aircraft? I know that the new JSFs and Superhornets are very powerful and capable machines, but has the interest in a naval air supremecy fighter finally ceased?

The fact that there was no mention of Naval forces in the air supremacy simulations makes me wonder about the future of Naval Aviation. Just curious on some thoughts and not trying to make a point one way or another.

The consensus seems to be no. We probably will not make a platform purely for Air Supremacy for several reasons discussed by people more experienced than I on this thread, but to summarize. Our forces do not seem to have anyone contending with us in this area for some time. Therefore, we will probably create multirole fighters to help with other missions as well as Air Supremacy.

No, the Navy’s interest in Air Supremacy has not ceased. We seem to have the assets to secure it AND complete other missions as well. Everyone thinks it is a good thing. Many people have already listed benefits to having Air Supremacy and how it helped in conflicts in the past. These next generation fighters have the emphasis on multiple roles. However, make no mistake if a enemy jet decides to show up in his shiny new toy which some person guy in a lab has rated as being 200% better in Air to Air platform. Our guys are still going to be the better pilots. That mig is just a expensive firework in my eyes. Plus we get to lay down some bombs.

I mean its like going into a bar. At the bar you run into women and beer. If we can get both why not?
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
^^ Wow, I guess we've been wrong all these years. I'll call the General in the morning and tell him he had better get to work at changing all those manuals. :rolleyes: Give it a rest, dude. I think the consensus of experienced people here agree, but thanks for telling us how to do our jobs nonetheless.

Brett

Didn't mean to offend you. I always like theoretical discussions--and thought everything I posted here was well supported-- but maybe I got a little too involved in this one. See you in the next thread. :icon_zbee
 

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
Ah, but there is a difference between Air Superiority and Air Supremacy. From JP 1-02:
Air Superiority — That degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another that permits the conduct of operations by the former and its related land, sea, and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by the opposing force.

Air Supremacy — That degree of air superiority wherein the opposing air force is incapable of effective interference.

Some people are using the definition of air supremacy for air superiority. Air Superiority is limited per the definition.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Ah, but there is a difference between Air Superiority and Air Supremacy. From JP 1-02:


Some people are using the definition of air supremacy for air superiority. Air Superiority is limited per the definition.

The Raptor Cadre Ive talked to really stresses the point on this. I heard one guy actually go so far as to say "The Raptor will give you the Air Supremecy it took the Eagle weeks to achieve in the first hours of the war." Honestly it seems like a way to overcomplicate a much simpler and broader term "Air Dominance"
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
Didn't mean to offend you. I always like theoretical discussions--and thought everything I posted here was well supported-- but maybe I got a little too involved in this one. See you in the next thread. :icon_zbee

Perhaps the point eluded you.........you argue with those who have experience vs your non-experience. Books, theories, internet aside, your opinion and knowledge is based on anything but experience.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Didn't mean to offend you. I always like theoretical discussions--and thought everything I posted here was well supported-- but maybe I got a little too involved in this one. See you in the next thread. :icon_zbee

It's not so much offense as annoyance. It's akin to an intern showing up at Livermore National Labs and repeatedly telling all the physics PhDs that the speed of light is actually 327 MPH.

Brett
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
Books, theories, internet aside, your opinion and knowledge is based on anything but experience.

Absolutely, and I have never claimed otherwise. Until next time,
Cheers.
 
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